Stewart Gandolf

Hello everybody, Stewart Gandolf, welcome again to our podcast at this time I’ve my new greatest buddy, Cynthia Newton, which I can not consider. Cynthia, we have not met earlier than not too long ago. So, I am so glad to have you ever on our podcast at this time. Hey, Cynthia, I might love you to start out off by telling our viewers just a little bit about your background. You understand the quick model in addition to like what you are specializing in at this time, simply to offer some context for every little thing we’re about to speak about. I believe that is actually going to be useful on this case.

Cynthia Newton

Completely thanks for having me. And yeah, I knew of you. I knew the identify. I do know the face, however we have by no means actually had a dialog till not too long ago. So, I all the time say we’re in a small business, and we must always know everyone, particularly I’ll date myself. Now. I am I believe, in my twenty fifth 12 months in healthcare advertising. So, you already know, I in my little thoughts, I believe everyone is aware of who I’m proper.

Nicely, it is humorous I acquired anyone who’s been round as a lot as me so long as I. Proper. So, let’s qualify that a few of the Newbies below 10 years may not know who we’re.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, nicely, it is I acquired to earlier than I get into your background. Simply enjoyable. Truth. Simply acquired off the cellphone with Chris Baird and we had been speaking. She’s oh, inform Cynthia, I stated, Hello! And I simply stated to Chris, I’m a horrible networker. I have been so busy specializing in our personal firm. So anyway, I am tremendous excited. Go forward and inform folks about what you do.

Cynthia Newton

Positive. I have been in round for a very long time. Initially began off within the Yellow Web page world.

Which is a wierd factor to say these days. However consider search as like the most important phone book. Proper once you’re able to both go to a hospital, name a physician, you are logging on and looking and also you’re looking for that info. So, Google My Enterprise, Google Enterprise Profile grew to become the most important Yellow Web page listing there was. Now add to it the brand new LLMs. And folks search and ChatGPT, and you already know we’re in an entire new Wild West proper now.

So, my function now. And what I targeted on for the final, I might say 15 years since Google’s reared its little head up is mainly serving to healthcare techniques be present in search and be chosen, proper? In order that simply does not entail simply listings administration, which I type of was on the forefront of initially however that features at this time, you already know, repute administration, model administration, and I’ve dealt delved deeper into model administration and separated—there’s Shopper Model, after which there’s Employer Model. And so, I’ve actually been targeted, I might say within the final couple of years, on Employer Model and Healthcare.

Stewart Gandolf

Excellent. And in order that’s actually what we’ll speak principally about at this time. And also you additionally had a while, I believe, with Physician.com and I believe repute as nicely. So, you’ve got had some expertise with some.

Cynthia Newton

On the SaaS aspect of the world.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, so nice. So, let’s discuss employer branding on-line at this time. And you already know, 1st of all, you already know, simply to possibly increase upon. What does that truly imply by way of the work you are doing? And why is that so vital at this time?

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, there’s particular. There are issues I do. And there is issues I do not do. Similar to on the patron aspect with affected person expertise. So, it is actually, what can the common candidate on the employer aspect see about your group? Proper? And the way do they type an opinion about what it is like for folks to be an worker at your group. That is solely the one factor that influences that’s actually the third social gathering info that they will see on search. So, whether or not that is in Glassdoor, Certainly, in Google, in Reddit? And LinkedIn, you already know, I type of sit on that aspect most continuously. So, it is how. What’s what’s that info that is on the market? How is that influencing a candidate’s determination to take the following step and apply to your group what I do not deal with, I may also help shine a light-weight on it. Is your precise employer model, internally proper. I can not see your 1st social gathering outcomes once I’m wanting from the surface. So, as a marketing consultant, I get into that with the shopper to try what’s your 1st social gathering survey, saying, You understand what your engagement surveys are, saying along with your staff, that is the Litmus Take a look at. So identical to the patron aspect the place we checked out what are our caps saying in comparison with what Google says, I do the identical factor. I am evaluating. What does your engagement survey? Whether or not that is Glenn, whether or not it is PG, what does it say once I examine it to your third social gathering of each other. Proper? And if it is supportive within the sense that we’ve a poor model on-line, and it mirrors that internally in your 1st social gathering surveys that deeper work of brand name work, of taking a look at your EVP and actually engaged on figuring out the cultural points that you’ve got inside your group. I do not do this. That is a Chris Baird, proper? That is a Gene Hitchcock. There’s plenty of consultants that dig deep on that aspect. However what I do is carry to life, and guarantee that your inner is represented correctly, externally, to candidates to assist them make that journey. So, you are competing pretty in a in a really aggressive market.

Stewart Gandolf

Yep. So, as you already know, our viewers consists of folks, after all, from well being techniques and multilocation suppliers and totally different folks like that the place the competitors for workers is fierce. However we even have you already know, folks from system or pharma well being plan SaaS, totally different sorts of corporations as nicely. So, I believe quite a lot of these ideas will apply for them as nicely. Proper? We’ll be speaking about at this time. So, we must always concentrate on what you are doing on a everyday foundation. However these ideas are fairly broad unfold in lots of circumstances, at the very least. So, there’s, you already know, quite a lot of high employer awards on the healthcare aspect of the Supplier Hospital aspect. You understand. How a lot weight ought to we give these?

Cynthia Newton

You understand it is a fantastic query. I believe I did a publish on it. Actually, you already know. Not a lot. They’re they’re nice for press releases in C-suite validation, proper? However they actually they not often line as much as what staff are literally saying on Glassdoor, Certainly, or Reddit. You understand, I’ve examined search outcomes. I’ve examined in Google. I’ve checked out ChatGPT and Perplexity to do searches on discovering high employers in healthcare and the listing (and relying on the place you are wanting) are very inconsistent, proper? So, candidates actually care about lived expertise, not advertising accolades. So these awards are 90%, and it is a fantastic publish. It is a fantastic press launch. However you already know it is third social gathering opinions that basically maintain the load. Greater than that award ever will within the minds of potential candidates.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it. And so, once you’re seeing or once you’re taking a look at, you already know, for varied shoppers, what are a few of the pink flags you are seeing on the market that you already know the candidates are a lot such as you’re serving to your employer manufacturers discover this. However what are staff on the lookout for? What are the pink flags there?

Cynthia Newton

Really easy. Pink flag is the ranking proper? That is it. Yeah. You understand, Glassdoor likes to say {that a} 3.5 to round 3.7 is the common for healthcare organizations. They prefer to say that that is a happy worker, and I’ll beg to vary. You understand, we dwell in a 5 star world. So, a candidate isn’t any totally different than a shopper. Proper? Once we go on to Amazon, and we have a look at one thing that we’ll buy, you already know. Are we racing to the three.5 ranking, you already know. Like, no, we need to see a 5 star, or as shut to five star as we are able to, and we need to see quantity of opinions. In order that’s the opposite pink flag proper is, even when you’ve got a 5 star. However you might have 10 opinions in comparison with a product that has 2,000 opinions, and it may be a 4.7, you already know. So, it isn’t simply the ranking, it is also the quantity of the suggestions. After which what persons are saying in that suggestions. Proper? So, if I am contemplating the issues that I’ve entry to as a candidate. I am taking a look at Glassdoor, and Certainly and so sure, the pink flag. However even when somebody has a greater rating, so say they’re like a 4.1, however there is not any responses. That is a pink flag. Is the employer care what their staff are saying about them? Are they listening. So, when you’re not seeing responses, your deduction goes to be like, nicely, they don’t seem to be listening. A. And so they do not care as a result of they don’t seem to be responding, even when they’re listening. B, so these are pink flags. In order that engaged employer, you already know, when you’re not seeing folks really engaged, possibly you might have a sponsored profile. So, you are paying that sponsorship {dollars} on your adverts to run. However you might have a 3.2. I imply, this stuff are very incongruent with each other. So these are all pink flags.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it that is smart. So, you already know, you might have quite a lot of expertise with this class. What are the errors that organizations are making like. The place do issues go mistaken?

Cynthia Newton

The most important mistake is just not ignoring them proper? Pretending like they do not exist. Put your head within the sand, you already know. And you would be shocked on the variety of manufacturers or the manufacturers that you’d suppose as a result of they’re high of thoughts. These manufacturers are most frequently the most important offenders of that—of I am not going to concentrate. I am not listening. I am pretending prefer it does not exist. So, I might suppose that is like the most important mistake is pretending like that does not exist. As a result of it does.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that is smart. Nicely, you had been speaking. We had been speaking offline. Inform me about your employer index, and is that one thing folks can simply discover? Or how does that work.

Cynthia Newton

Yeah. So, the rationale why I constructed it—I am a buddy, proper? I am not your foe. I am not your enemy. I’ve created a listing, and it is simply type of prefer to carry consciousness. So, I took. I began with everyone who gained some sort of high employer award. So, whether or not that is Forbes. Whether or not it was, you already know, Healthgrades, whether or not it was Beckers, whether or not it was whoever was the highest employer award winner, and I began with these as a result of I figured high they need a high award. Proper? Let’s check out what Glassdoor and Certainly say about them. And that is how I constructed this roster was. I simply ranked them in line with their Glassdoor general ranking. We will rank them in line with in Certainly, these range, and we are able to dig into the variations in scoring mechanisms on one other dialogue or one other query. However I constructed this to carry consciousness, as a result of it is one thing that I really feel has been very a lot ignored for a few years. As a result of and the reason being as a result of it is type of sits in No Man’s Land proper? HR. Who’re is the social gathering that truly is in command of working adverts and doing the recruitment, proper? So, they will are likely to personal these profiles on these websites to replace and guarantee that these posts are listed. However advertising is not actually concerned generally in these websites. So advertising is admittedly about controlling what our model impressions like proper. What’s our model voice? So, it sits proper now from an employer branding standpoint between these 2 of HR proudly owning the operate of hiring, however advertising actually proudly owning the operate of Model, and the way that acts as a pull to carry our staff in. And so, what’s occurred is that nobody’s actually owned that in a extremely significant manner through the years. And now we’re at a degree of inflection inside our business that we’re taking a look at a possible big shortfall of suppliers on the NDDO. Aspect even APPs by 12 months 2034. It is extraordinarily aggressive. And so now that is changing into an increasing number of vital, and I believe we’re on the level the place we have to begin paying consideration and begin managing it, or we’ll actually fall even additional behind from our employment wants.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you already know, like we talked just a little bit offline about generally that listing that you’ve got goes up and down, and a few of the greatest form of most revered names in healthcare could be, you already know, like surprisingly on by this measure, not fairly do as nicely another feedback on that, significantly?

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, once more, I am not right here to name out people, you already know. I will be the first one to

give kudos the place there deserves so like this month within the July launch, we had some people transfer up in an enormous manner. So Methodist Well being in Texas as a result of there’s a few Methodist Healths, however the ones in Texas they went from Spot 14 to rank 5^th, so that they made an enormous soar to an general ranking of a 4.3. That is fairly massive, proper? So, after we have a look at our high 10, it is a shut, you already know. Fairly shut. It ranges from a 4.1 within the high, 10 to a 4.6 St. Jude having that 4.6, and so they went up from one month from 4.5 to 4.6, however I’ll name out that we had some drops which had been stunning, and plenty of issues can lead into this. So, I’ll inform you what I believe might need occurred NYU Langone. So, I had them at Quantity 2 in June, and so they had a 4.4, which is extraordinarily excessive. They’d a quantity of rankings of two,696. Now I did the replace. They dropped to a 4.1. Nonetheless fairly darn good, proper? It is in our high in our high 20, however their quantity dramatically elevated to 4373. In order that’s, you already know, nearly doubling their quantity. So, a few issues might have occurred. One they might have been listening to me and pushed out a evaluation request abruptly to their complete group, which isn’t what I like to recommend you do. So, that is 1 situation of what occurred. One other situation is that we’re stuffed with mergers and acquisitions in our business. So, in the event that they merged with a company, acquired a company and absorbed that group’s Glassdoor, and Certainly rankings. And once more, I might go off on a tangent on that. That may be a purpose why that dropped, and that occurred with one in all my shoppers that I work with intently on that is that we you already know, Glassdoor is type of like Google within the sense that plenty of profiles can pop up when folks simply need to depart a evaluation, and it isn’t owned and managed by your group. If you wish to consolidate these so that you’ve got one branded web page on Glassdoor. You are going to find yourself taking a bunch of unfastened, goosey profiles bringing them in, and that might actually mess along with your general ranking. In order that’s one more reason why that that change might need occurred. So once more, I am not pointing them out.

Stewart Gandolf

Clearly, yeah.

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, like, it is a studying factor for all of us, together with Langone, to say, like, Wow, what did occur? Proper like? We have to take note of these issues.

Stewart Gandolf

Nicely, I believe one factor that the theme of the day a few conversations I’ve had even previous to talking with you is, you already know, that is the type of factor that individuals I do not suppose, or folks. Some executives most likely did not put quite a lot of consideration to again within the day when there was a couple of, you already know, like each hospital, had its personal. Each city had its personal hospital. There was that hospital or not, after which, you already know the there was loads of expertise. Now you might have very aggressive markets, and you have got a scarcity of expertise, so actually, some folks care about this stuff, for certain, most likely greater than used to, for the hospital techniques that need to form of authentically, you already know, embrace this, take extra of a management, and however on the identical time be genuine and showcase their worker expertise on-line. What are some fast tips about how to do this.

Cynthia Newton

So, you already know you result in some actually good factors there. Proper? One factor is that you already know this isn’t HR’s accountability alone. You understand, folks need to level fingers and say, Nicely, whose job is it? You understand it truly is, employer branding is a management problem as a result of it touches recruitment, retention, morale, even affected person expertise. So, you already know, we have spent the final, you already know, 15 years simply, actually targeted on affected person expertise from the ranking aspect, from the evaluation aspect, from transparency. And if you consider affected person expertise, we won’t ship a fantastic optimistic, affected person expertise. We won’t ship that 5 star affected person expertise, if the expertise on our worker aspect is dangerous, proper? So sad staff don’t make for optimistic, affected person experiences. So, you already know these issues go hand in hand so ,most frequently, what’s out there may be not consultant of your group if it is left to natural outcomes. So, we have spent 10 years plus evaluation requesting on the affected person aspect. However we have not achieved it internally. So, you already know I might say that a few of the issues that you just’d need to do is to embrace that transparency piece. So, not simply from the affected person aspect, but additionally the worker aspect. So, have a look at your Glint scores, or PG, or whoever you are doing all of your engagement surveys. Convert that to a 5 star scale, identical to you do in your Caps, proper the place you may take that general ranking of how doubtless are you to suggest us as an employer, or general happiness, satisfaction, rating, and alter that to a 5 star scale and publish it by yourself website together with some feedback. That is that transparency piece that that candidate’s going to land in your web site and be capable of see that suggestions from verified staff. Ask staff to depart a evaluation for you, you already know that is a good way to have extra engagement. Whether or not that is on a recurrently like. So, I might suggest not doing all of it at one time. So sometimes, after we do our engagement surveys, we do it abruptly. Proper? All people is aware of it is coming. We open up that survey. For six weeks we collect the outcomes we analyze, after which we share it. I might not suggest that you just ask for a evaluation on a third social gathering abruptly. We need to unfold it out for varied causes, one, for to not have dramatic ranking rating, you already know, rankings taking place drops and will increase, but additionally simply to have that recency issue, all algorithms, whether or not that is in LLM. So, whether or not that is in search from an website positioning standpoint, recency, relevancy. These issues are vital. So, you need that that ongoing suggestions to be pushed on the market. So, you may tie a evaluation request to somebody’s anniversary date. Proper? Ship it out. They’re celebrating their anniversary of how you already know, nonetheless, a few years they have been along with your group, hey? Nice! Thanks, you already know, Stewart, for being a part of our crew. We, you already know, we need to have fun you. Would you share your expertise on-line, you already know, for others?

Stewart Gandolf

Love that. That is a fantastic thought.

Cynthia Newton

That I extremely encourage.

Stewart Gandolf

That is a fantastic nugget. I like that one. So, let’s discuss AI, AI, AI, AI! We’re all speaking about AI lots. How does that influence within the employer model repute?

Cynthia Newton

It is actually attention-grabbing. As a result of, once more, you already know, that is considerably of a more moderen viewpoint and newer focus for me and for everyone. I am most likely one of many few that is really speaking about it from a third social gathering standpoint. And I believe that it ought to mirror identical to shopper, you already know, begin doing the searches the issue with LLMs, the AI sort of searches and ChatGPT, Claude. The issue with these is that so many different components identical to search, like search historical past, type of come into play no matter you’ve got been speaking about or looking on beforehand you already know, generally methods in. However do some searches by yourself model, you already know. Give it some good prompts. You understand I am a gastroenterologist with 15 years’ expertise. I am on the lookout for you already know, acute care, facility to be on employees in a smaller, you already know metropolis within the Midwest you already know, like inform me who a high employer is that I ought to take into account who has job openings. These are the kind of searches very lengthy tail detailed searches and begin seeing what comes up and you will be most likely not proud of the outcomes quite a lot of the instances. However it’s worthwhile to perceive these outcomes, and I might mirror them in all of those locations that candidates may very well be looking

and actually understanding what leads into these. So once more, it is that contemporary, related, frequent suggestions that is wealthy in particulars and tells tales. So, once you’re requesting these suggestions out of your staff, I have been amazed on the suggestions that we have been receiving from my shoppers which are requesting as a marketer I couldn’t write the content material that I am getting in these responses from a artistic writing standpoint. It blows me away. A few of the opinions, the feedback that we get, and we share these internally with administration and management. So, it isn’t nearly recruitment. It is not nearly like what you are wanting like on-line to listen to this suggestions up by means of management actually type of brings them again down from a from a macro view, to love wanting inside their group at like, Hey, that is what it is prefer to work on 4B in XYZ hospital inside our system, proper? And taking a look at it a really micro degree, to make change.

Stewart Gandolf

You talked about advertising a few instances and employers, and just like the hole between this class like, who’s in cost like? So, what is the disconnect between inner tradition and the messaging like, what’s the hole, and who’s in cost, or inform us just a bit bit about that.

Cynthia Newton

You understand, it is we’re all actually in command of it, and it must be a management down. Push. I consider. You understand, I believe affected person expertise is even a part of the equation the place I’ve had a affected person expertise chief that I’ve labored with beforehand at different organizations. Convey me into the HR crew into the advertising crew and say, hey, that is one thing as a affected person because the particular person you already know liable for affected person expertise supply. I’ve issues about our inner, you already know our worker expertise, as a result of it instantly impacts my potential to maneuver the needle which I am being charged with, you already know. So, generally it may not be advertising, main that that cost. It may not be HR. Main that cost. It may be PX. It may very well be somebody in operations, however all of us personal that accountability of what does that worker expertise? What’s it like, and the way does it drive our general progress for the group, our retention for our staff, after which additionally our attraction and retention for our sufferers as nicely and delivering that affected person expertise. So, it is actually very integral into the general operate of the group.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you already know, we talked about metrics about like, for instance, simply, you already know, form of averaging the scores. However are there any extra metrics they need to be monitoring that we’re not seeing folks monitor.

Cynthia Newton

Completely. And that is the place it will get lots tougher. So identical to advertising getting that ROI, taking a look at our KPIs. You understand, a few of the KPIs is just not about what number of extra impressions we get on the profile. And I have a look at these. Clearly we doubled our impressions on our profiles for one in all my shoppers, and that is a fantastic KPI. We have doubled the clicks, you already know. One other nice KPI. However on the finish of the day, did it drive extra certified candidates? Did we’ve sooner time to fill the open positions? You understand, these are the metrics that we want to have the ability to dig in to, particularly if we’re investing {dollars} into sponsored profiles on these third social gathering websites. Or if we’re investing in any sort of selling to fill our positions, you already know, is knowing the place our candidates are coming from, what their pathway is. So, we speak in regards to the affected person journey proper, the patron journey to how they uncover care. We ought to be taking a look at our candidate journeys to how our candidates are coming to us, the place they’re coming to us. What’s vital, and really, possibly mapping these out as nicely. And I do not suppose we have spent as a lot time in our business taking a look at these issues.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it a few final inquiries to wrap up right here any massive myths about employer branding and healthcare.

Cynthia Newton

Hmm! I do not find out about a delusion. I simply, you already know. I simply suppose that it is that it isn’t vital.

you already know that it is simply type of a kind of issues that oh, it is Glassdoor! Oh, it is Certainly! You understand, it isn’t simply these websites. It is Reddit, you already know. What are folks speaking about. It is Fishbowl in Glassdoor. Persons are having actual conversations about what it is prefer to work in your group, and so they’re not having it with you. So, you already know, like it’s your drawback. It is management. It is a very a lot a management problem. And it isn’t one thing that may be ignored.

Stewart Gandolf

Nice closing query, is, so the place ought to you already know well being system, or another type of entity, for that matter, begin in the event that they need to enhance their employer. Model repute.

Cynthia Newton

I might begin by pulling collectively all the oldsters that I discussed proper, and it must be a management. It must be a C-suite initiative. You understand the place they’re pulling in, and so they’re saying to their head of HR. And their Head of Advertising and their Head of Affected person Expertise like, here is what we have to take into account, you already know, like, I  simply speak to a company the opposite day. They actually haven’t achieved an engagement survey since 2022, you already know, after which they’re eager to know. Nicely, how do you suppose we’d shake out, you already know, if we did one now, and I am like, nicely, let’s examine, let’s take a look at 2019, proper? You had been up. You had been down in 22, I imply everyone was. It was after Covid. However we’re 3 years publish, Covid, you already know, and you actually have to be doing this survey yearly, and in between doing you already know, pulse surveys. So, there’s totally different points that happen that you really want suggestions all through the years asking these fast SMS inquiries to get suggestions. So, I might say, that is most likely crucial piece is opening up that channel of direct suggestions. When you’re not doing engagement surveys, and it does not must be an enormous fancy, you already know, $5,000-$100,000 survey crying out loud, open up, SurveyMonkey, and do some fast polls proper that you just need to get a temperature on. However it’s worthwhile to begin listening, opening up that different listening publish on what’s being stated in social? What’s being stated in Reddit? What’s being stated on Glassdoor. 1st begin gathering and getting that evaluation of The place are we at earlier than then wanting and saying, are we prepared to handle repute on the third events? Or do we’ve to do some inner work first?

Stewart Gandolf

So, I respect your time, Cynthia. This was nice. I am going to add a few feedback so as to add to that. 1st of all, I like the thought of like do not get too caught up, you already know, on the earth of healthcare, whether or not you are at a supplier, a hospital, or you already know system firm. There’s quite a lot of issues to fret about, proper? There’s compliance. There’re staff, there’re clients, there’s you already know, affected person expertise, like all this stuff. So, there’s lots. So, in protection of a few of the hospitals or well being techniques which have had a tough time with this I can see the way it’s straightforward to love to maintain your eye off the ball on the identical time, although the reminder like, nicely, you possibly can simply do SurveyMonkey. You do not have to go rent a crew of that is excellent, proper? You might do one thing that is actually vital is like to not get misplaced within the you already know, what’s the

all through the great and pursuit of perfection. So, you get nothing began. So, it is very easy to finish up there. So, I believe that form of gorilla angle is vital, when crucial. Quantity 2, you already know, we’re doing a ton of branding within the final couple of years. As well as, all of the digital advertising we’re identified higher identified for. However we do lots in branding as nicely and you already know lots of people truthfully, the shoppers we’ve to essentially carry into fascinated about their staff as a part of that course of. Proper? We won’t go create a brand new model and never carry the workers alongside. And so, you already know, I believe not simply on the day-to-day, you already know, worker satisfaction. However the place are they? You understand, particularly with massive organizations. Your staff are one in all your greatest stakeholders. Proper? So, when you’re not fascinated about them, you are lacking the boat proper? So how can we tie this all collectively? And it is arduous I get it. It is actually arduous. I used to be describing my, our personal, our personal company to somebody. A few instances at this time. Really, it is like, it is actually advanced. There’s lots there. However you continue to acquired to do it. It is desk stake what you simply must do.

So, Cynthia, I respect your time. I stay up for work with you on some extra initiatives right here sooner or later and thanks for attending at this time.

Cynthia Newton

Thanks. I respect it.

Stewart Gandolf

Hello everybody, Stewart Gandolf, welcome again to our podcast at this time I’ve my new greatest buddy, Cynthia Newton, which I can not consider. Cynthia, we have not met earlier than not too long ago. So, I am so glad to have you ever on our podcast at this time. Hey, Cynthia, I might love you to start out off by telling our viewers just a little bit about your background. You understand the quick model in addition to like what you are specializing in at this time, simply to offer some context for every little thing we’re about to speak about. I believe that is actually going to be useful on this case.

Cynthia Newton

Completely thanks for having me. And yeah, I knew of you. I knew the identify. I do know the face, however we have by no means actually had a dialog till not too long ago. So, I all the time say we’re in a small business, and we must always know everyone, particularly I’ll date myself. Now. I am I believe, in my twenty fifth 12 months in healthcare advertising. So, you already know, I in my little thoughts, I believe everyone is aware of who I’m proper.

Nicely, it is humorous I acquired anyone who’s been round as a lot as me so long as I. Proper. So, let’s qualify that a few of the Newbies below 10 years may not know who we’re.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, nicely, it is I acquired to earlier than I get into your background. Simply enjoyable. Truth. Simply acquired off the cellphone with Chris Baird and we had been speaking. She’s oh, inform Cynthia, I stated, Hello! And I simply stated to Chris, I’m a horrible networker. I have been so busy specializing in our personal firm. So anyway, I am tremendous excited. Go forward and inform folks about what you do.

Cynthia Newton

Positive. I have been in round for a very long time. Initially began off within the Yellow Web page world.

Which is a wierd factor to say these days. However consider search as like the most important phone book. Proper once you’re able to both go to a hospital, name a physician, you are logging on and looking and also you’re looking for that info. So, Google My Enterprise, Google Enterprise Profile grew to become the most important Yellow Web page listing there was. Now add to it the brand new LLMs. And folks search and ChatGPT, and you already know we’re in an entire new Wild West proper now.

So, my function now. And what I targeted on for the final, I might say 15 years since Google’s reared its little head up is mainly serving to healthcare techniques be present in search and be chosen, proper? In order that simply does not entail simply listings administration, which I type of was on the forefront of initially however that features at this time, you already know, repute administration, model administration, and I’ve dealt delved deeper into model administration and separated—there’s Shopper Model, after which there’s Employer Model. And so, I’ve actually been targeted, I might say within the final couple of years, on Employer Model and Healthcare.

Stewart Gandolf

Excellent. And in order that’s actually what we’ll speak principally about at this time. And also you additionally had a while, I believe, with Physician.com and I believe repute as nicely. So, you’ve got had some expertise with some.

Cynthia Newton

On the SaaS aspect of the world.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, so nice. So, let’s discuss employer branding on-line at this time. And you already know, 1st of all, you already know, simply to possibly increase upon. What does that truly imply by way of the work you are doing? And why is that so vital at this time?

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, there’s particular. There are issues I do. And there is issues I do not do. Similar to on the patron aspect with affected person expertise. So, it is actually, what can the common candidate on the employer aspect see about your group? Proper? And the way do they type an opinion about what it is like for folks to be an worker at your group. That is solely the one factor that influences that’s actually the third social gathering info that they will see on search. So, whether or not that is in Glassdoor, Certainly, in Google, in Reddit? And LinkedIn, you already know, I type of sit on that aspect most continuously. So, it is how. What’s what’s that info that is on the market? How is that influencing a candidate’s determination to take the following step and apply to your group what I do not deal with, I may also help shine a light-weight on it. Is your precise employer model, internally proper. I can not see your 1st social gathering outcomes once I’m wanting from the surface. So, as a marketing consultant, I get into that with the shopper to try what’s your 1st social gathering survey, saying, You understand what your engagement surveys are, saying along with your staff, that is the Litmus Take a look at. So identical to the patron aspect the place we checked out what are our caps saying in comparison with what Google says, I do the identical factor. I am evaluating. What does your engagement survey? Whether or not that is Glenn, whether or not it is PG, what does it say once I examine it to your third social gathering of each other. Proper? And if it is supportive within the sense that we’ve a poor model on-line, and it mirrors that internally in your 1st social gathering surveys that deeper work of brand name work, of taking a look at your EVP and actually engaged on figuring out the cultural points that you’ve got inside your group. I do not do this. That is a Chris Baird, proper? That is a Gene Hitchcock. There’s plenty of consultants that dig deep on that aspect. However what I do is carry to life, and guarantee that your inner is represented correctly, externally, to candidates to assist them make that journey. So, you are competing pretty in a in a really aggressive market.

Stewart Gandolf

Yep. So, as you already know, our viewers consists of folks, after all, from well being techniques and multilocation suppliers and totally different folks like that the place the competitors for workers is fierce. However we even have you already know, folks from system or pharma well being plan SaaS, totally different sorts of corporations as nicely. So, I believe quite a lot of these ideas will apply for them as nicely. Proper? We’ll be speaking about at this time. So, we must always concentrate on what you are doing on a everyday foundation. However these ideas are fairly broad unfold in lots of circumstances, at the very least. So, there’s, you already know, quite a lot of high employer awards on the healthcare aspect of the Supplier Hospital aspect. You understand. How a lot weight ought to we give these?

Cynthia Newton

You understand it is a fantastic query. I believe I did a publish on it. Actually, you already know. Not a lot. They’re they’re nice for press releases in C-suite validation, proper? However they actually they not often line as much as what staff are literally saying on Glassdoor, Certainly, or Reddit. You understand, I’ve examined search outcomes. I’ve examined in Google. I’ve checked out ChatGPT and Perplexity to do searches on discovering high employers in healthcare and the listing (and relying on the place you are wanting) are very inconsistent, proper? So, candidates actually care about lived expertise, not advertising accolades. So these awards are 90%, and it is a fantastic publish. It is a fantastic press launch. However you already know it is third social gathering opinions that basically maintain the load. Greater than that award ever will within the minds of potential candidates.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it. And so, once you’re seeing or once you’re taking a look at, you already know, for varied shoppers, what are a few of the pink flags you are seeing on the market that you already know the candidates are a lot such as you’re serving to your employer manufacturers discover this. However what are staff on the lookout for? What are the pink flags there?

Cynthia Newton

Really easy. Pink flag is the ranking proper? That is it. Yeah. You understand, Glassdoor likes to say {that a} 3.5 to round 3.7 is the common for healthcare organizations. They prefer to say that that is a happy worker, and I’ll beg to vary. You understand, we dwell in a 5 star world. So, a candidate isn’t any totally different than a shopper. Proper? Once we go on to Amazon, and we have a look at one thing that we’ll buy, you already know. Are we racing to the three.5 ranking, you already know. Like, no, we need to see a 5 star, or as shut to five star as we are able to, and we need to see quantity of opinions. In order that’s the opposite pink flag proper is, even when you’ve got a 5 star. However you might have 10 opinions in comparison with a product that has 2,000 opinions, and it may be a 4.7, you already know. So, it isn’t simply the ranking, it is also the quantity of the suggestions. After which what persons are saying in that suggestions. Proper? So, if I am contemplating the issues that I’ve entry to as a candidate. I am taking a look at Glassdoor, and Certainly and so sure, the pink flag. However even when somebody has a greater rating, so say they’re like a 4.1, however there is not any responses. That is a pink flag. Is the employer care what their staff are saying about them? Are they listening. So, when you’re not seeing responses, your deduction goes to be like, nicely, they don’t seem to be listening. A. And so they do not care as a result of they don’t seem to be responding, even when they’re listening. B, so these are pink flags. In order that engaged employer, you already know, when you’re not seeing folks really engaged, possibly you might have a sponsored profile. So, you are paying that sponsorship {dollars} on your adverts to run. However you might have a 3.2. I imply, this stuff are very incongruent with each other. So these are all pink flags.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it that is smart. So, you already know, you might have quite a lot of expertise with this class. What are the errors that organizations are making like. The place do issues go mistaken?

Cynthia Newton

The most important mistake is just not ignoring them proper? Pretending like they do not exist. Put your head within the sand, you already know. And you would be shocked on the variety of manufacturers or the manufacturers that you’d suppose as a result of they’re high of thoughts. These manufacturers are most frequently the most important offenders of that—of I am not going to concentrate. I am not listening. I am pretending prefer it does not exist. So, I might suppose that is like the most important mistake is pretending like that does not exist. As a result of it does.

Stewart Gandolf

Yeah, that is smart. Nicely, you had been speaking. We had been speaking offline. Inform me about your employer index, and is that one thing folks can simply discover? Or how does that work.

Cynthia Newton

Yeah. So, the rationale why I constructed it—I am a buddy, proper? I am not your foe. I am not your enemy. I’ve created a listing, and it is simply type of prefer to carry consciousness. So, I took. I began with everyone who gained some sort of high employer award. So, whether or not that is Forbes. Whether or not it was, you already know, Healthgrades, whether or not it was Beckers, whether or not it was whoever was the highest employer award winner, and I began with these as a result of I figured high they need a high award. Proper? Let’s check out what Glassdoor and Certainly say about them. And that is how I constructed this roster was. I simply ranked them in line with their Glassdoor general ranking. We will rank them in line with in Certainly, these range, and we are able to dig into the variations in scoring mechanisms on one other dialogue or one other query. However I constructed this to carry consciousness, as a result of it is one thing that I really feel has been very a lot ignored for a few years. As a result of and the reason being as a result of it is type of sits in No Man’s Land proper? HR. Who’re is the social gathering that truly is in command of working adverts and doing the recruitment, proper? So, they will are likely to personal these profiles on these websites to replace and guarantee that these posts are listed. However advertising is not actually concerned generally in these websites. So advertising is admittedly about controlling what our model impressions like proper. What’s our model voice? So, it sits proper now from an employer branding standpoint between these 2 of HR proudly owning the operate of hiring, however advertising actually proudly owning the operate of Model, and the way that acts as a pull to carry our staff in. And so, what’s occurred is that nobody’s actually owned that in a extremely significant manner through the years. And now we’re at a degree of inflection inside our business that we’re taking a look at a possible big shortfall of suppliers on the NDDO. Aspect even APPs by 12 months 2034. It is extraordinarily aggressive. And so now that is changing into an increasing number of vital, and I believe we’re on the level the place we have to begin paying consideration and begin managing it, or we’ll actually fall even additional behind from our employment wants.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you already know, like we talked just a little bit offline about generally that listing that you’ve got goes up and down, and a few of the greatest form of most revered names in healthcare could be, you already know, like surprisingly on by this measure, not fairly do as nicely another feedback on that, significantly?

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, once more, I am not right here to name out people, you already know. I will be the first one to

give kudos the place there deserves so like this month within the July launch, we had some people transfer up in an enormous manner. So Methodist Well being in Texas as a result of there’s a few Methodist Healths, however the ones in Texas they went from Spot 14 to rank 5^th, so that they made an enormous soar to an general ranking of a 4.3. That is fairly massive, proper? So, after we have a look at our high 10, it is a shut, you already know. Fairly shut. It ranges from a 4.1 within the high, 10 to a 4.6 St. Jude having that 4.6, and so they went up from one month from 4.5 to 4.6, however I’ll name out that we had some drops which had been stunning, and plenty of issues can lead into this. So, I’ll inform you what I believe might need occurred NYU Langone. So, I had them at Quantity 2 in June, and so they had a 4.4, which is extraordinarily excessive. They’d a quantity of rankings of two,696. Now I did the replace. They dropped to a 4.1. Nonetheless fairly darn good, proper? It is in our high in our high 20, however their quantity dramatically elevated to 4373. In order that’s, you already know, nearly doubling their quantity. So, a few issues might have occurred. One they might have been listening to me and pushed out a evaluation request abruptly to their complete group, which isn’t what I like to recommend you do. So, that is 1 situation of what occurred. One other situation is that we’re stuffed with mergers and acquisitions in our business. So, in the event that they merged with a company, acquired a company and absorbed that group’s Glassdoor, and Certainly rankings. And once more, I might go off on a tangent on that. That may be a purpose why that dropped, and that occurred with one in all my shoppers that I work with intently on that is that we you already know, Glassdoor is type of like Google within the sense that plenty of profiles can pop up when folks simply need to depart a evaluation, and it isn’t owned and managed by your group. If you wish to consolidate these so that you’ve got one branded web page on Glassdoor. You are going to find yourself taking a bunch of unfastened, goosey profiles bringing them in, and that might actually mess along with your general ranking. In order that’s one more reason why that that change might need occurred. So once more, I am not pointing them out.

Stewart Gandolf

Clearly, yeah.

Cynthia Newton

Yeah, you already know, like, it is a studying factor for all of us, together with Langone, to say, like, Wow, what did occur? Proper like? We have to take note of these issues.

Stewart Gandolf

Nicely, I believe one factor that the theme of the day a few conversations I’ve had even previous to talking with you is, you already know, that is the type of factor that individuals I do not suppose, or folks. Some executives most likely did not put quite a lot of consideration to again within the day when there was a couple of, you already know, like each hospital, had its personal. Each city had its personal hospital. There was that hospital or not, after which, you already know the there was loads of expertise. Now you might have very aggressive markets, and you have got a scarcity of expertise, so actually, some folks care about this stuff, for certain, most likely greater than used to, for the hospital techniques that need to form of authentically, you already know, embrace this, take extra of a management, and however on the identical time be genuine and showcase their worker expertise on-line. What are some fast tips about how to do this.

Cynthia Newton

So, you already know you result in some actually good factors there. Proper? One factor is that you already know this isn’t HR’s accountability alone. You understand, folks need to level fingers and say, Nicely, whose job is it? You understand it truly is, employer branding is a management problem as a result of it touches recruitment, retention, morale, even affected person expertise. So, you already know, we have spent the final, you already know, 15 years simply, actually targeted on affected person expertise from the ranking aspect, from the evaluation aspect, from transparency. And if you consider affected person expertise, we won’t ship a fantastic optimistic, affected person expertise. We won’t ship that 5 star affected person expertise, if the expertise on our worker aspect is dangerous, proper? So sad staff don’t make for optimistic, affected person experiences. So, you already know these issues go hand in hand so ,most frequently, what’s out there may be not consultant of your group if it is left to natural outcomes. So, we have spent 10 years plus evaluation requesting on the affected person aspect. However we have not achieved it internally. So, you already know I might say that a few of the issues that you just’d need to do is to embrace that transparency piece. So, not simply from the affected person aspect, but additionally the worker aspect. So, have a look at your Glint scores, or PG, or whoever you are doing all of your engagement surveys. Convert that to a 5 star scale, identical to you do in your Caps, proper the place you may take that general ranking of how doubtless are you to suggest us as an employer, or general happiness, satisfaction, rating, and alter that to a 5 star scale and publish it by yourself website together with some feedback. That is that transparency piece that that candidate’s going to land in your web site and be capable of see that suggestions from verified staff. Ask staff to depart a evaluation for you, you already know that is a good way to have extra engagement. Whether or not that is on a recurrently like. So, I might suggest not doing all of it at one time. So sometimes, after we do our engagement surveys, we do it abruptly. Proper? All people is aware of it is coming. We open up that survey. For six weeks we collect the outcomes we analyze, after which we share it. I might not suggest that you just ask for a evaluation on a third social gathering abruptly. We need to unfold it out for varied causes, one, for to not have dramatic ranking rating, you already know, rankings taking place drops and will increase, but additionally simply to have that recency issue, all algorithms, whether or not that is in LLM. So, whether or not that is in search from an website positioning standpoint, recency, relevancy. These issues are vital. So, you need that that ongoing suggestions to be pushed on the market. So, you may tie a evaluation request to somebody’s anniversary date. Proper? Ship it out. They’re celebrating their anniversary of how you already know, nonetheless, a few years they have been along with your group, hey? Nice! Thanks, you already know, Stewart, for being a part of our crew. We, you already know, we need to have fun you. Would you share your expertise on-line, you already know, for others?

Stewart Gandolf

Love that. That is a fantastic thought.

Cynthia Newton

That I extremely encourage.

Stewart Gandolf

That is a fantastic nugget. I like that one. So, let’s discuss AI, AI, AI, AI! We’re all speaking about AI lots. How does that influence within the employer model repute?

Cynthia Newton

It is actually attention-grabbing. As a result of, once more, you already know, that is considerably of a more moderen viewpoint and newer focus for me and for everyone. I am most likely one of many few that is really speaking about it from a third social gathering standpoint. And I believe that it ought to mirror identical to shopper, you already know, begin doing the searches the issue with LLMs, the AI sort of searches and ChatGPT, Claude. The issue with these is that so many different components identical to search, like search historical past, type of come into play no matter you’ve got been speaking about or looking on beforehand you already know, generally methods in. However do some searches by yourself model, you already know. Give it some good prompts. You understand I am a gastroenterologist with 15 years’ expertise. I am on the lookout for you already know, acute care, facility to be on employees in a smaller, you already know metropolis within the Midwest you already know, like inform me who a high employer is that I ought to take into account who has job openings. These are the kind of searches very lengthy tail detailed searches and begin seeing what comes up and you will be most likely not proud of the outcomes quite a lot of the instances. However it’s worthwhile to perceive these outcomes, and I might mirror them in all of those locations that candidates may very well be looking

and actually understanding what leads into these. So once more, it is that contemporary, related, frequent suggestions that is wealthy in particulars and tells tales. So, once you’re requesting these suggestions out of your staff, I have been amazed on the suggestions that we have been receiving from my shoppers which are requesting as a marketer I couldn’t write the content material that I am getting in these responses from a artistic writing standpoint. It blows me away. A few of the opinions, the feedback that we get, and we share these internally with administration and management. So, it isn’t nearly recruitment. It is not nearly like what you are wanting like on-line to listen to this suggestions up by means of management actually type of brings them again down from a from a macro view, to love wanting inside their group at like, Hey, that is what it is prefer to work on 4B in XYZ hospital inside our system, proper? And taking a look at it a really micro degree, to make change.

Stewart Gandolf

You talked about advertising a few instances and employers, and just like the hole between this class like, who’s in cost like? So, what is the disconnect between inner tradition and the messaging like, what’s the hole, and who’s in cost, or inform us just a bit bit about that.

Cynthia Newton

You understand, it is we’re all actually in command of it, and it must be a management down. Push. I consider. You understand, I believe affected person expertise is even a part of the equation the place I’ve had a affected person expertise chief that I’ve labored with beforehand at different organizations. Convey me into the HR crew into the advertising crew and say, hey, that is one thing as a affected person because the particular person you already know liable for affected person expertise supply. I’ve issues about our inner, you already know our worker expertise, as a result of it instantly impacts my potential to maneuver the needle which I am being charged with, you already know. So, generally it may not be advertising, main that that cost. It may not be HR. Main that cost. It may be PX. It may very well be somebody in operations, however all of us personal that accountability of what does that worker expertise? What’s it like, and the way does it drive our general progress for the group, our retention for our staff, after which additionally our attraction and retention for our sufferers as nicely and delivering that affected person expertise. So, it is actually very integral into the general operate of the group.

Stewart Gandolf

So, you already know, we talked about metrics about like, for instance, simply, you already know, form of averaging the scores. However are there any extra metrics they need to be monitoring that we’re not seeing folks monitor.

Cynthia Newton

Completely. And that is the place it will get lots tougher. So identical to advertising getting that ROI, taking a look at our KPIs. You understand, a few of the KPIs is just not about what number of extra impressions we get on the profile. And I have a look at these. Clearly we doubled our impressions on our profiles for one in all my shoppers, and that is a fantastic KPI. We have doubled the clicks, you already know. One other nice KPI. However on the finish of the day, did it drive extra certified candidates? Did we’ve sooner time to fill the open positions? You understand, these are the metrics that we want to have the ability to dig in to, particularly if we’re investing {dollars} into sponsored profiles on these third social gathering websites. Or if we’re investing in any sort of selling to fill our positions, you already know, is knowing the place our candidates are coming from, what their pathway is. So, we speak in regards to the affected person journey proper, the patron journey to how they uncover care. We ought to be taking a look at our candidate journeys to how our candidates are coming to us, the place they’re coming to us. What’s vital, and really, possibly mapping these out as nicely. And I do not suppose we have spent as a lot time in our business taking a look at these issues.

Stewart Gandolf

Obtained it a few final inquiries to wrap up right here any massive myths about employer branding and healthcare.

Cynthia Newton

Hmm! I do not find out about a delusion. I simply, you already know. I simply suppose that it is that it isn’t vital.

you already know that it is simply type of a kind of issues that oh, it is Glassdoor! Oh, it is Certainly! You understand, it isn’t simply these websites. It is Reddit, you already know. What are folks speaking about. It is Fishbowl in Glassdoor. Persons are having actual conversations about what it is prefer to work in your group, and so they’re not having it with you. So, you already know, like it’s your drawback. It is management. It is a very a lot a management problem. And it isn’t one thing that may be ignored.

Stewart Gandolf

Nice closing query, is, so the place ought to you already know well being system, or another type of entity, for that matter, begin in the event that they need to enhance their employer. Model repute.

Cynthia Newton

I might begin by pulling collectively all the oldsters that I discussed proper, and it must be a management. It must be a C-suite initiative. You understand the place they’re pulling in, and so they’re saying to their head of HR. And their Head of Advertising and their Head of Affected person Expertise like, here is what we have to take into account, you already know, like, I  simply speak to a company the opposite day. They actually haven’t achieved an engagement survey since 2022, you already know, after which they’re eager to know. Nicely, how do you suppose we’d shake out, you already know, if we did one now, and I am like, nicely, let’s examine, let’s take a look at 2019, proper? You had been up. You had been down in 22, I imply everyone was. It was after Covid. However we’re 3 years publish, Covid, you already know, and you actually have to be doing this survey yearly, and in between doing you already know, pulse surveys. So, there’s totally different points that happen that you really want suggestions all through the years asking these fast SMS inquiries to get suggestions. So, I might say, that is most likely crucial piece is opening up that channel of direct suggestions. When you’re not doing engagement surveys, and it does not must be an enormous fancy, you already know, $5,000-$100,000 survey crying out loud, open up, SurveyMonkey, and do some fast polls proper that you just need to get a temperature on. However it’s worthwhile to begin listening, opening up that different listening publish on what’s being stated in social? What’s being stated in Reddit? What’s being stated on Glassdoor. 1st begin gathering and getting that evaluation of The place are we at earlier than then wanting and saying, are we prepared to handle repute on the third events? Or do we’ve to do some inner work first?

Stewart Gandolf

So, I respect your time, Cynthia. This was nice. I am going to add a few feedback so as to add to that. 1st of all, I like the thought of like do not get too caught up, you already know, on the earth of healthcare, whether or not you are at a supplier, a hospital, or you already know system firm. There’s quite a lot of issues to fret about, proper? There’s compliance. There’re staff, there’re clients, there’s you already know, affected person expertise, like all this stuff. So, there’s lots. So, in protection of a few of the hospitals or well being techniques which have had a tough time with this I can see the way it’s straightforward to love to maintain your eye off the ball on the identical time, although the reminder like, nicely, you possibly can simply do SurveyMonkey. You do not have to go rent a crew of that is excellent, proper? You might do one thing that is actually vital is like to not get misplaced within the you already know, what’s the

all through the great and pursuit of perfection. So, you get nothing began. So, it is very easy to finish up there. So, I believe that form of gorilla angle is vital, when crucial. Quantity 2, you already know, we’re doing a ton of branding within the final couple of years. As well as, all of the digital advertising we’re identified higher identified for. However we do lots in branding as nicely and you already know lots of people truthfully, the shoppers we’ve to essentially carry into fascinated about their staff as a part of that course of. Proper? We won’t go create a brand new model and never carry the workers alongside. And so, you already know, I believe not simply on the day-to-day, you already know, worker satisfaction. However the place are they? You understand, particularly with massive organizations. Your staff are one in all your greatest stakeholders. Proper? So, when you’re not fascinated about them, you are lacking the boat proper? So how can we tie this all collectively? And it is arduous I get it. It is actually arduous. I used to be describing my, our personal, our personal company to somebody. A few instances at this time. Really, it is like, it is actually advanced. There’s lots there. However you continue to acquired to do it. It is desk stake what you simply must do.

So, Cynthia, I respect your time. I stay up for work with you on some extra initiatives right here sooner or later and thanks for attending at this time.

Cynthia Newton

Thanks. I respect it.