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Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Whats up and welcome once more to our podcast.

That is Stuart Gandalf and right this moment I’ve one other intriguing visitor, anyone I’ve identified for gosh Charlie it has been nearly 20 years proper we have been working a job for a very long time.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

We’re each getting old Stuart.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Not me not me personally everyone else is. So, I met Charlie really proper shortly after the founding of healthcare success and Charlie has been working with us ever since as our media purchaser for conventional media and I cherished Charlie from the start not simply personally and the truth that he is only a actually likable man and a aspiring actor on the facet with group theater however Charlie is an absolute professional

in the case of conventional media. And Charlie brings us a viewpoint which is an ideal mix of branding and direct response.

lot of the work we do for our purchasers may be very direct response pushed, however we additionally do a good quantity of branding.

And in order that’s uncommon to search out somebody who thinks on either side of the kind of advertising mind there. And so Charlie, welcome, it is good to have you ever again.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

So it must be enjoyable. I am trying ahead to having a pleasant little enjoyable chat with you in regards to the notorious conventional media.

There’s so much to cowl, so we should always in all probability get proper into it.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

All proper, good. sure, Charlie is a really matter of truth and a vital a part of our staff. So Charlie, I came visiting to this concept as I used to be searching for a podcast visitor and considering by way of who we should always have.

And also you and I’ve achieved webinars and totally different podcasts and issues prior to now, however we’ve not achieved one in fairly some time.

And I believe right this moment the market has modified, And are years collectively. And now there’s those who… and by no means even critically thought of conventional media.

I assume it does not even make their radar. so there’s lot of individuals that may say that conventional media is both useless or simply just for tremendous previous individuals.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

But it surely’s like, what is going on on on the market right this moment?

 Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

We’ll go into extra element, however simply within the large image.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, , Stewart, imply, we may in all probability do considered one of these podcasts or webinars on daily basis as a result of that is how rapidly the media is altering on the market.

And significantly even should you incorporate AI into the combination now, each time you flip round, there’s one thing new. because it pertains to the standard media, I am glad we’ll have the chance to debate the relevance of conventional media in right this moment’s media panorama as a result of I believe some do contemplate it to be a useless medium and a few do contemplate it to be kind of a passé and outdated.

Nonetheless, my conviction at this level of the evolution of digital know-how is that individuals must take a more in-depth have a look at conventional media.

and never simply brush it off as a result of there are parts of it nowadays that should be extra rigorously checked out.

So every time I communicate on conventional media, I do not really feel I wish to persuade a consumer to do conventional media.

What I wish to do is I wish to educate them on the place conventional media matches in right this moment. After which collaboratively, we may make that call as as to if or not conventional media continues to be an essential part to their general advertising marketing campaign.

So while you began off your query, you mentioned some individuals assume it is useless and likewise it is for very previous individuals.

So the broad stroke assertion of it being useless is clearly not true. There are examples we’ll share right this moment that actually make it not a useless medium.

After which so far as the very previous individuals, that may be a greater image as a result of generationally, means habits are actually from youthful individuals on the age of 15 to older individuals on the age of 80, 90, all of them devour their media so much otherwise right this moment.

So while you discuss conventional media being primarily for previous individuals, there’s relevance of fact to that assertion. So let’s outline older individuals first.

That could be a 45 yr previous and older group. Now that does not imply a forty five yr previous is older. However within the media world, that’s the group from an age perspective that’s nonetheless consuming conventional media.

So after we consider using it and we take into consideration its relevance and significance, I do not assume there’s any denying that conventional media is now only a part of promoting.

The digital evolution is actual. The AI coming down the street is actual. However all of those are put right into a bucket of media for campaigns that assist purchasers, significantly in our healthcare enterprise, that conventional media part has to at the very least be thought-about so as to make our campaigns extra profitable.

So on this podcast right this moment, I hope that we are able to educate and have individuals take just a bit little bit of a more in-depth have a look at conventional media as a result of should you hear it is useless or should you hear revenues are declining, you bought to look past that.

Why is that? The place are these revenues declining? Why are these revenues declining? So I might prefer to get into slightly bit extra of that after we get additional alongside right here.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So I might say simply a few issues for context. What’s, , as , and I’ve labored with numerous main markets for our purchasers everywhere in the nation.

, we pull collectively and might’t our studies, for instance. pattern analysis studies. there’s hundreds of thousands of {dollars} nonetheless being spent in market locations like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, all the main media markets, hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in conventional.

So it is humorous as a result of should you simply say, properly, yeah, no one’s doing this anymore. It is slightly naive, proper? he is many hundreds of thousands of {dollars} being spent, anyone’s watching, proper?

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Additionally, Charlie, course, , we simply bought off the telephone, or I’ve slightly convention name with our staff this morning, getting ready for a gathering with considered one of our hospital purchasers.

And, , as , for our listeners, there is definitely loads of seniors at hospitals, proper? It is form of a factor. And, , that dialogue completely consists of conventional media, and the way will we attain seniors in these classes, in each a branding standpoint and a service line standpoint.

So, there’s nonetheless a task for conventional media, in that exact case, they’re situated in a really lovely location, the place they’ve each kind of semi-urban, actually rural affected person populations, for broad classes, totally different media methods for all of the totally different counties they serve. So, conventional media may be very a lot a line whereas in these circumstances. So, Charlie, I challenged you, know, as we talked about, this world is altering always and information. Let’s discuss some latest information.

Like, let’s run us by way of some related information. assume it might be useful.

Charlie DeNatale

Past simply the quantity of {dollars} spent. Yeah. So, Stuart, earlier you talked about you used the phrase hundreds of thousands of {dollars} that advertisers are nonetheless placing on the market.

I might prefer to put the letter B in entrance of that as a substitute of hundreds of thousands, as a result of it is billions. And I might prefer to quote some statistics from 2024, and likewise provide you with kind of an thought why there typically is a misinterpretation about conventional media.

So, in 2024, simply tv and radio alone, there was roughly $32 billion spent nationwide in the USA for these two mixed mediums.

Nonetheless, Nonetheless, in that very same analysis that I learn, it additionally mentioned that was a 9%, there’s going to be a 9%, I am sorry, let me return, 32 billion is a projection for 2025.

What the analysis research confirmed is that that projection for radio and TV is a 9% decline from 2024. So the very first thing individuals have a look at is, properly, there is a 9% decline.

That implies that these types of media are deteriorating, however while you look nearer, the explanation there is a 9% decline is return to 2024.

That was a political yr, and it was additionally an Olympic yr. There’s some huge cash that is pumped into TV and radio and politics in addition to Olympics.

So a 9% decline versus 2024, they’re factoring within the amount of cash from political in addition to from the Olympics that got here into TV and radio.

So let’s not have a look at the 9% decline and abruptly strategy this in a destructive means. The reality of the matter is the quantity you wish to have a look at is the $32 billion projected in 2025.

That’s going to be spent on US broadcast TV and cable TV in addition to terrestrial radio. So this doesn’t keep in mind something that’s achieved on streaming providers.

That is solely broadcast TV, cable TV, and terrestrial radio. So while you have a look at that form of income, you then should say to your self, okay, properly, who’re these geniuses which might be spending this sort of cash on a medium that lots of people really feel is a useless medium?

Nicely, should you have a look at the class of companies that spend this sort of cash, you might then perceive to some extent, why conventional media is getting used. As a result of keep in mind, the important thing to conventional tv, that might be what we name linear TV, the important thing to that’s the attain that that offers you.

Tv will provide you with that attain, broadcast TV will, in contrast to nearly some other media type, besides perhaps for billboards in an area market.

So individuals nonetheless wish to use that attain medium to perform a few of their targets with their campaigns. So while you have a look at the income projected for 2025, simply on TV and radio, at $32 billion, the finance trade is excessive on that checklist.

The training trade is excessive on that checklist of spenders. Car trade is excessive on that checklist of spenders. Lots of sports activities programming has cash pumped into TV and radio.

Nonetheless, let’s discuss healthcare and the place is healthcare on that checklist? What I discovered in my analysis and to some extent, even within the each day contact that we now have with our personal purchasers, the healthcare discipline, the medical doctors, the advertising administrators, the individuals accountable for healthcare entities, it isn’t that they do not wish to spend on conventional media.

It is that it is kind of a international part to them. And in loads of the analysis you’ll learn, healthcare suppliers mentioned we might like to spend more cash on conventional media, however we do not perceive the way it matches in nowadays.

And I believe that is one of many issues hopefully that I can share not solely right here on this platform, however that I try to share once I clarify why conventional media is essential to loads of the healthcare purchasers that we cope with on it an on a regular basis foundation.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

That makes loads of sense, Charlie, one of many issues that once I’m going again to what I mentioned earlier, that was hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in particular person markets in healthcare spending a girl.

I wasn’t clear sufficient about that. So we’re speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in healthcare inside like a market like Chicago, not to mention the bigger billions of {dollars} nationwide throughout all industries.

So let’s develop slightly bit extra. How is media being consumed right this moment simply in broad phrases?

Charlie DeNatale

Such a loaded query, as a result of that is the place you get into these age gaps within the generations. And should you have a look at this in a extra granular means, an 18 to 24 yr previous isn’t watching conventional TV.

Let’s be clear about that. A 24 to 35 yr previous is much less prone to be watching conventional TV and even listening to terrestrial radio.

Let’s be completely clear about that. We’re not denying it. and we’re attempting to not persuade individuals that there’s something aside from these sorts of statistics.

So the best way most individuals of all age teams are consuming media, there’s one frequent denominator. They’re all consuming media on-line.

There isn’t any query about that. 75-year-olds, 80-year-olds are on-line studying information on the CNN web site, the Fox Information web site. They’re checking their climate on-line.

There isn’t any denying that the digital evolution current on-line is now being consumed by all age teams. Okay, so on condition that’s a truth.

In the event you have a look at the 45 and older age group and we’ll have a look at tv because the one instance, one of many statistics is what number of hours every week does an 18 to 34-year-old spend watching tv, common linear TV.

That is a minimal quantity, it is perhaps lower than an hour every week that these individuals in that age group are watching linear TV.

Now while you get into the 35 and older, abruptly it is three hours perhaps every week that that age group is watching linear TV or listening to the terrestrial radio.

Now go 45 and over. Swiftly you are as much as six to seven to eight hours every week of consumption of linear TV.

That is broadcast TV, cable TV or terrestrial radio. So while you have a look at how persons are consuming media and also you wish to apply that to a media marketing campaign for a consumer, you clearly should look what’s the target market that the consumer is attempting to succeed in as a result of as a media purchaser, I might be fired if I instructed you because the proprietor of Healthcare Success that I’ll be linear TV advertisements for

or a consumer that is attempting to succeed in a youthful age group of their 20s or 30s. It could make no sense, however you must have a look at all of those generational ages earlier than you’ll be able to say, I wish to goal this viewers with tv or terrestrial radio or billboards.

So the best way the media is consumed varies by age group and as that youthful age group, and that is essential, as a result of we bought to look 5 years down the street, proper?

Notably for my sake, my I am a media purchaser, proper? So 5 years down the street, because the child boomers and the 70s and 80-year-olds cross away, and the youthful age group of 20s and 30s and 40s begin to develop into 50s and 60s, they don’t seem to be going to gravitate in the direction of conventional media.

Why? As a result of they’re rising up otherwise, proper? We grew up watching tv, sitting on the sofa in our lounge.

With our households consuming snacks, the youthful group now, 18 to 40, for instance, they’re rising up otherwise, so their habits are totally different.

So 5 years from now, should you and I are speaking on this identical platform about conventional media and the place we’re 5 years from now, the dialog’s going to be slightly bit totally different.

And I believe that is a actuality.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So, enjoyable truth, Charlie, you do not know this about me, however I wrote a paper in faculty for additional credit score in regards to the eventual demise of newspapers and I labored for a newspaper.

I used to be, that is when the even pre kind of web, as we all know it right this moment was starting to occur and there have been various things on the market like CompuServe and totally different providers that had been on the market, and it was fairly straightforward to see declining newspapers then.

So it has been a very long time coming and people habits individuals develop up with are, , unchanging. So enjoyable truth, I’ve a neighbor who nonetheless will get his newspaper thrown at him on daily basis, and , my canine bark just about each morning, you are the newspaper man.

And like, I have not, , I bought used to working, I driving over, subscribed to the newspaper for many years.

It is simply not my behavior. And it is humorous, you must watch out as a result of even with the age teams, individuals devour media otherwise. So my spouse, for instance, , nonetheless listens to terrestrial as a result of she’s driving much more than me.

And so now once I’m within the automotive, I both take heed to nothing or I am streaming. So it is like, you actually bought to watch out when you consider stereotypes, proper?

I am, , the standard media I am consuming is primarily outside as a result of, , I’ve bought streaming providers on each, , TV in addition to on audio.

However my spouse is far more into, , extra conventional stuff, significantly in the case of terrestrial radio. He nonetheless has her favourite exhibits, and on the identical time she listens to podcasts on a regular basis.

So it is like there’s gradations right here. So let’s drill down slightly extra although. Like one of many issues that I believe is related to healthcare and it is a enjoyable truth.

I keep in mind as soon as I went out to seek the advice of with a consumer, that is fairly some time in the past, checked out me and was like, you are not going to place my face on billboards, are you?

And again then, , being on a billboard was like the last word of unethical for a physician. Now in fact medical doctors wish to be on billboards and each hospital has billboards in all places.

So however outside reaches, everyone of all ages group, so it is onerous to see that one going away and positively large cash there.

So let’s discuss out of dwelling for slightly bit.

Charlie DeNatale

Yeah, so that you hit it proper on the top, Stewart, by the best way, simply humorous tales is as a result of we deal and speak with medical doctors fairly a bit.

Generally it is form of humorous while you discuss billboards now they usually’re actually extra receptive to billboards right this moment than they had been, for instance 20 years in the past, however typically I ponder why they actually wish to be on billboards.

Is it simply to stroke the ego as a result of they see their identify or their face up there? Or is it actually to assist them develop their enterprise?

However billboards clearly is the least impacted of the standard media types by the digital evolution. And what we’re seeing with development over the subsequent three to 5 years is billboards can have the best development price of any of the standard media types over the subsequent 5 years.

You wish to put {that a} totally different means. They’re in all probability not going away as a result of take note if you consider it from a standard sense standpoint, the analogy you introduced up about you and your spouse, your spouse’s within the automotive so much. So she’s listening to terrestrial radio or at the very least that is her selection. However the different a part of it’s except all of us cease driving, except all of us cease taking mass transportation and who is aware of perhaps sometime that is going to occur. I do not know. However except that occurs, billboards are the apparent kinds of media that you’d wish to expose a message to as a result of persons are simply nonetheless on the market of their vehicles and it is bought nice retention.

So while you have a look at billboards additionally, you additionally haven’t got to fret about essentially the generational problems with, , are they consuming this in the event that they’re 18 or 19 or 20 years previous.

Nicely, 18 and 19 and 20-year-olds are driving, proper? 35-year-olds are driving. 45-year-olds are driving. 80-year-olds, they might not be presupposed to be driving, however they’re, they usually’re nonetheless on the market, proper?

they will,  So, and imagine me, I am kind of in that age group the place I am beginning to see three strains on the street, which is not superb. However you continue to, so long as these age teams are driving, billboards are going to be on the market. The opposite factor that is essential about billboards. They’ve expanded what they will supply as a part of their leap, so to talk, into the digital world or that form of part.

So, for instance, should you do 10 billboards in a market, like, for instance, Chicago, for instance, you set up 10 billboards, properly, now these billboard corporations have a platform that they apply referred to as geo-fencing.

And mainly, they do a geo-fence round every billboard in order that when the target market particular person, for instance you are the target market Stewart, you are driving by a billboard.

After which, after you cross that billboard and we captured you, you resolve to go onto your cellphone and have a look at what the climate goes to be the subsequent week.

So, you pull up the climate app, properly, we’ll feed you a digital advert at that time. So, you might see how the evolution of feeding individuals data on their telephones for example.

has been an expanded type for the standard static billboards, in addition to the digital billboards that you simply see very regularly all through.

So, Billboard projected billing for 2025 is increased than tv billing and radio billing, which I reported to you earlier than at $32 billion, and never solely is it increased, however in contrast to TV and radio, they’re displaying a 4% to five% development in income in 2025.

So, it is one of many few conventional mediums that are not essentially going backwards by way of its advert income development.

In the event you have a look at healthcare, significantly as a result of that is our area of interest and our class of enterprise, much more of our healthcare purchasers are understanding higher tips on how to use billboards and After we make a presentation, billboards are so much simpler for them to grasp as this can be a good type of media, as a result of it is smart.

It makes an excessive amount of logical sense, whereas with TV and radio, you continue to have slightly little bit of convincing to do and while you make your pitch for why somebody ought to use radio or TV.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Proper, I will simply give a pair fast ideas to complement what you simply mentioned. one, after we take into consideration out-of-home versus billboards, that features numerous different choices, proper?

That may embody, , even occasions, web science, or to conclude, , for instance, every time I drive to Los Angeles, there is a constructing there, an previous industrial constructing that has this huge LED lights all the best way round the entire constructing.

It is actually spectacular, really, they usually’ve bought large advertisers on that. And they also’ve bought movement graphics on this huge industrial constructing.

In Las Vegas, there’s nearly nary a spot that does not have promoting on it anyplace. The cabs, the loos, in all places.

So out of house is there’s 1,000,000 totally different alternatives over there. One other factor about out of dwelling after which additionally such as you mentioned form of will get into level the place as like is that this digital or is that this conventional however we’ll save that argument apart.

The opposite factor that I believe individuals overlook about is out of house is on a price per publicity foundation very efficient oftentimes.

So it could be costly to purchase a billboard however when you might have half million vehicles driving the day on a price per publicity foundation it’ll be very, very value efficient.

Not usually the perfect direct response medium however usually from consciousness and branding standpoint it may be very, very value efficient and we may clearly spend podcasts in every of those media after we simply haven’t got time however we’ll speak subsequent let’s discuss radio.

What’s taking place on radio as of late?

Charlie DeNatale

So I’ve a really outspoken opinion in regards to the world of terrestrial radio as of late and it is in all probability an opinion that might be slightly controversial, however I do see this as a media purchaser. I believe there’s been slightly little bit of dysfunction among the many conglomerate media companies and the way they’ve directed their radio stations by way of the expansion of enterprise.

And this is what I imply by this. About 10, 12 years in the past, because the digital evolution actually picked up velocity, lot of those companies who personal radio stations constructed digital platforms as an enhancement of what they had been going to promote as a part of their terrestrial radio gross sales pitch.

What would in the end occur, as you may count on, these investments on the digital facet and streaming, etcetera, even to the purpose of podcasting, etcetera, these platforms had been fairly an costly funding for these companies.

And what occurred was, they mandated their gross sales individuals to promote these digital platforms first, even over their terrestrial radio their bread and butter which bought them to the place they had been so i would be getting calls on a regular basis because the media purchaser and i am saying wait a minute wait a minute are you with the radio station, or are you some kind of a digital firm what are you as a result of even the gross sales reps weren’t geared up on the time to promote that digital platform however they had been mandated to take action quick ahead to 2025 this is what you are seeing on this planet of radio companies numerous layoffs why are you seeing numerous layoffs as a result of the cash that was invested on that streaming facet did not essentially generate the income they had been anticipating so what they wound up doing is that they wanted to chop bills in order that they began firing expertise, and many others. And earlier than it, a few of the well-known personalities who had been making some huge cash on radio stations had been being let go.

Now, I am not within the interior works of each company on this nation because it pertains to operating radio stations, however I’ve slightly little bit of frequent sense.

And a few of the issues that they’ve achieved to reinforce their company income stream did not work out. So what does that do because it pertains to you and I as media individuals and to the purchasers that we service?

The firings do not essentially matter. You are still going to have on-air expertise. It is a matter of who the on-air expertise is and whether or not or not you wish to align your self.

Nonetheless, what’s winding up taking place now could be these companies are beginning to return to their terrestrial radio bread and butter.

So while you look now at what advertisers are on the radio facet, Radio has survived within the final 15 years, satellite tv for pc radio. Terrestrial radio has survived satellite tv for pc radio. Terrestrial radio has survived Spotify. Terrestrial radio has survived even podcasts, as a result of podcasts now are nearly a companion of terrestrial radio.

It is an enhanced type of that. So the podcasts are literally extra in keeping with terrestrial radio. Now, the opposite a part of terrestrial radio that is essential to recollect if you end up an advertiser is there is no denying that the music codecs on terrestrial radio is kind of a declining breed, as a result of they’re getting music disseminated in numerous different methods.

The information stations, and the sports activities speak stations, and the controversial speak stations, significantly within the political world. world we reside in right this moment are nonetheless very, very worthwhile.

Who’s the viewers that listens to these? In the event you exclude nationwide public radio, it is nonetheless the older age group. So it comes again to that age group once more.

And being positive that your advertiser is in a reputable atmosphere, the information atmosphere, the sports activities speak atmosphere, or the speak atmosphere typically.

So you are still age being a premier significance to no matter you promote on conventional media radio.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Is smart, Charlie. we actually use radio so much for in loads of methods and remotes our sports activities or speak radio or, , once more, consciousness performs.

There’s positively a spot for it. And also you’re proper. is unquestionably some confusion there for some time there specifically.

However it’s, , an incredible automobile to work with. We’re in all probability velocity up slightly bit right here, however let’s discuss TV.

TV is, , the entire cable TV versus conventional and, , and the place are we right this moment with TV?

Charlie DeNatale

So what’s streaming achieved for us because it pertains to TV? It is clearly placing the cable enterprise out. All people’s chopping boards on conventional cable.

This is the opposite factor that is taking place. Not solely is the streaming service disrupted cable TV, and I will get to broadcast in a second, however should you had learn the information not too long ago, I might say as latest as 5 – 6 months in the past, what you had been seeing is loads of skilled sports activities leagues transferring away from cable TV for his or her broadcast.

And as a substitute, there’s signing big contracts with streaming providers, whether or not it’s Netflix or YouTube or Apple. So main league baseball is an instance, simply fired ESPN.

They’re not going to broadcast their video games on ESPN. That’s loads of income that ESPN goes to lose.

So they will take main league baseball is clearly gravitating in the direction of streaming providers the place individuals such as you and I we’re sports activities followers.

And we wish to watch baseball all year long, whether or not it’s our native staff or some other. We will pay 20 bucks a month for the subscription.

That is the place they wish to go. And the native regional sports activities corporations are all going bankrupt. As a result of they have no content material anymore.

So that they’re gone. In order that takes care of loads of the cable income that was coming in. So not solely you and I as subscribers of cable TV are chopping the cords to enterprise off into different issues like streaming and binge watching on streaming providers, but additionally they’re shedding the entire income that’s coming in by way of primarily sports activities leagues.

So cable, which is totally different than broadcast, tv, linear TV. is clearly on the demise. As a media purchaser, I am very shy about shopping for cable for my purchasers anymore.

So I in all probability would not be recommending it. On the linear facet, it is information and daytime programming from an area market foundation that can survive for the subsequent 5 to seven years.

And I hope that individuals will quote this from me right this moment as a result of seven years from now, I might like them to return again and say, that man Charlie was proper.

That linear TV did survive. However why? They did not survive due to their prime time programming as a result of they don’t seem to be getting the content material anymore for that.

The content material goes to the streaming providers. However what they may survive with is their information on an area foundation.

And I am not, I emphasize that due to the political atmosphere right this moment. It is not the nationwide CNN or the nationwide Fox Information that takes sides politically.

The native market stations, their newscast is just about down the center. So that they’re nonetheless going to outlive and once more, it is an older group.

So we bought to do not forget that as properly.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So it is actually humorous, Charlie, we now have a trip rental and we, , reduce the wire of very long time in the past right here at our major residence, however we needed to carry cable TV again for older company as a result of they could not determine the streaming stuff.

And it was humorous. Claire I simply bought by way of, my spouse and I simply bought again from with my oldest teenage daughter from Joshua Tree the place we had been a visitor at a trip rental.

all they’ve is RoKu, they didn’t even have any, like, I simply all the time marvel like, how does grandma understand how to do that or grandpa?

Like these are like, there’s loads of, , you get your service, click on then and you bought to love stream it and get your passwords out and all that.

So it is positively altering for positive. Let’s simply spend a pair minutes on junk mail and earlier than we wrap up right here. Junk mail ideas?

Charlie DeNatale

Yeah, so junk mail is one other survivor. I believe it is kind of within the billboard. It is gonna dangle in there as a result of the one factor that impacts junk mail to some extent is postage charges And if these postage charges proceed to extend and abruptly it does not develop into as environment friendly to purchase junk mail Then clearly purchasers are gonna draw back from it or advertisers However as of right this moment 2025 the junk mail enterprise going into the income projections of ’25 is kind of wholesome and Clearly should you do junk mail proper the ROI might be fairly important So artistic is an enormous essential a part of junk mail So that you all the time bought to recollect about that and likewise there was a analysis survey that was achieved that 81% of advertisers who used junk mail in 2024 Have mentioned that they plan on coming again and Rising their junk mail funds in 2025 most of those advertisers had been model identify advertisers.

So maintain it that in thoughts that 81% of that group goes to return again in ’25. So I would not have a look at junk mail as going anyplace as a part of this conventional media outlook.

And I might have a look at as a really, essential a part of campaigns typically when applicable and likewise the artistic has bought to be relevant as properly.

Fast, quick ahead to newspapers and magazines.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Nicely, earlier than do this, simply wish to make a touch upon junk mail. So the traditional for junk mail, a few issues. One is junk mail is intrusive, proper? You possibly can’t flip it off. It involves your home. You must cope with it. You possibly can throw it away or not, however you must cope with it. So again within the day, buyers had been implausible, issues like Valpack and Avon, these issues. They usually can nonetheless be a part of a combination. That is not likely what we’re speaking about right this moment.

Junk mail from a B2B standpoint might be highly effective, though it is powerful to search out individuals like, if you wish to attain me at my workplace, good luck.

know, it is like, you  can’t. So, however the traditional software on junk mail is well being care is Medicare Benefit. So Medicare Benefit continues to be an open enrollment is, , lastly we’re convincing individuals to do different channels, however actually historically has been all in regards to the insurance coverage guys occasions after which conventional junk mail and TV are the large, and they’re nonetheless large large {dollars} being spent there.

So Medicare Benefit is an enormous person of each junk mail and TV, and we see that so much, however mail positively has nonetheless alternatives as properly.

Does everyone learn newspapers or magazines anymore, Charlie?

Charlie DeNatale

So I mentioned it. You mentioned it earlier. I imply, clearly, the standard media type most impacted by the entire on-line evolution is clearly each day newspapers.

They began going out of enterprise years in the past. You rarely see anyone really holding the the print paper of their arms, though often when on the airport, I see three or 4 older individuals sitting there on the gate, they usually do have an actual newspaper of their hand.

these are you and much between. The each day newspapers are going by the wayside in a short time, if not already. One of many issues I do assume will survive is one thing kind of you referenced earlier is these newspapers which might be thrown in your driveway as a result of, once more, and I’ll reinforce what I’ve mentioned fairly a bit on this hour that we have been spending collectively.

Age is essential right here. It is essential to these individuals older who’re studying a few of these newspapers which might be thrown on the driveway.

They nonetheless learn these. And in case you are an area retailer or an area healthcare facility in an area market reaching a 50 to 55 yr previous, these newspapers might be advantageous they usually’re very cheap.

Why are they advantageous? As a result of the individuals who learn these are primarily fascinated about what is going on on of their quick group.

And there is nothing extra essential to that age group than well being. So they will watch and have a look at these advertisements and they will belief these individuals which might be promoting in these newspapers as a result of these newspapers are nonetheless credible. These are weekly newspapers. They’re not each day. Every little thing else within the journal world and within the each day newspapers, lengthy gone.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

I am simply on mute. Curiously sufficient on that, what you are referring to there’s what we name the consumers, that are oftentimes free, though my neighbor that is getting the man driving up is paying for a subscriptions. He is one of many final diehards there.

Curiously sufficient, there’s nonetheless niches. Like for instance, I discussed our trip rental. Although we do not reside in Palm Springs, we really feel an affinity for that.

So I’ve subscribed really to the digital version of their publication, or newspaper. It by no means occurred to me get the onerous model. However I do really feel like an area reference to that. So it is humorous, I chortle. I do not do it in Orange County the place I reside on daily basis, however I do it there.

Charlie DeNatale

Stewart, you are too refined of a market or to return to the newspaper.

going to take a look at the web stuff. So that you’re from the exception of the rule.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

That is true. So The it’s enjoyable to see all these things advanced and it is the magazines for instance had been such an enormous deal and people are gone I exploit Apple information for my information nearly every little thing.

I’ve a paid subscription for that and for properly the premium kind of Apple every little thing for subscription which is superior by the best way however the I watch my very own behaviors and watch everyone else’s however once more there’s nonetheless a lot alternative.

One query I did not discuss as we prepped for this however I believe it was price a kind of mini industrial earlier than we get to the final piece is like what is the benefit of utilizing a media purchaser and and particularly in healthcare why ought to they attain out to us and speak to you, Charlie?

Charlie DeNatale

Nicely I hope a few of the issues that I introduced up right this moment on this podcast goes to be a adequate cause as a result of critically I imply should you’re a media purchaser and also you’re it is identical to some other enterprise to it’s a media purchaser.

Particularly have been round so long as I’ve you have a look at each nook and cranny into each little bit of analysis that you simply undergo And also you wish to just remember to’re studying the entire story and many instances should you’re a consumer wanting to make use of your individual media However I can nearly assure you they don’t seem to be all of these items.

not going past simply what they learn in a single sentence So a media purchaser is advantageous extra so right this moment than it in all probability was years in the past I imply, I solely had conventional media 25-30 years in the past to fret about now.

You have to determine properly How does this match into the general Advertising and marketing marketing campaign that features a digital part? So, media patrons I believe are way more advantageous to have right this moment as is as aren’t businesses who’re full service And that is a key as a result of full service is essential as a result of these days it is extra in regards to the holistic Advertising and marketing strategy that mixes conventional that mixes search engine optimisation that mixes PPC, and many others. So it is essential to have that company’s experience.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, I might say that And I discuss this so much currently, , right this moment the panorama broadly is there’s advertising businesses which might be actually branding businesses.

That is what they do. They are saying to do different stuff. They’re not likely, particularly once they’re usually owned by older founders oftentimes to be actually the extra artistic those who subcontract out the digital stuff. Or you might have digital businesses that are not actually good at artistic or branding. They once more, they are saying they do not actually do it. And nearly no one even thinks about conventional media. So it is like with our company specifically, , so long as I am, , of accountable for the route, I’m all the time going to have that built-in.

And that is an enormous factor of our strategy is trying on the branding facet, the direct response facet, the standard, the digital.

And positively we do a complete lot extra digital. However, , Charlie nearly all the time has a seat on the desk, at the very least within the planning dialogue.

So even after we’re doing solely digital, conventional, many circumstances nonetheless has a spot. Any remaining ideas, Charlie, as we wrap up right here?

Charlie DeNatale

Yep. In a short time, you are going to hear the time period fairly a bit going ahead, multi-channel campaigns. Hold that in thoughts, as a result of what that basically means is you are combining all these assets of media to make your marketing campaign profitable.

And a part of that’s conventional media is now a part of a multi-channel marketing campaign. It is not the only real media type any longer, it is a part of multi-channel advertising.

Secondly, billboards and radio are going to outlive fairly properly and maintain their income and maintain their place within the promoting trade for some time.

So these two media sources, by the best way, which go hand-in-hand in compatibility, you are open air, you are going be listening to radio within the automotive, you are seeing your billboard, all of it registers.

So billboards and radio for positive are going to be distinguished nonetheless for the subsequent three to 5 years. TV is a wait and see.

I might encourage everyone on the market who’s listening to this to simply form of monitor the best way TV is evolving, as a result of it’ll change each single day the extra these sports activities leagues change their strategy, the extra streaming providers.

Discover out whether or not or not they will be worthwhile within the subsequent 10 years or not. All of that is going to vary the TV panorama. In order that’s kind of a wait and see. Media patrons which might be across the nation who purchase conventional media, and by the best way, they’re few and much between as of late.

They’re going to have the ability to present all advertisers with a major rationalization as to how and why conventional media can be utilized.

Not going to power it down their throat, not going to persuade them. We’re simply going to teach them to make sure they perceive earlier than they spend their hard-earned {dollars}.

That is the best way I can summarize this up.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, I simply assume that is the hot button is that it’s multimedia. actually, have purchasers that simply wish to do, for instance, paid search or search engine optimisation.

However after we’re the extra refined, extra business-oriented ones usually are kind of a encompass sound strategy, like how will we attain individuals in all places they reside and switch?

How will we , do that stuff strategically, not simply by a bunch of techniques. So, Charlie, it is a pleasure working with you all the time.

In the present day was enjoyable. You realize, we get to do that in, I do know, yearly or two, , we’re working collectively in a gathering in only a couple hours presenting to our hospital consumer.

Oh, anyway, Charlie, thanks very a lot.

Charlie DeNatale

In fact, thanks everybody.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Thanks for listening, everyone. Hopefully, this was useful for you. Take care.

Learn the Full Transcript

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Whats up and welcome once more to our podcast.

That is Stuart Gandalf and right this moment I’ve one other intriguing visitor, anyone I’ve identified for gosh Charlie it has been nearly 20 years proper we have been working a job for a very long time.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

We’re each getting old Stuart.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Not me not me personally everyone else is. So, I met Charlie really proper shortly after the founding of healthcare success and Charlie has been working with us ever since as our media purchaser for conventional media and I cherished Charlie from the start not simply personally and the truth that he is only a actually likable man and a aspiring actor on the facet with group theater however Charlie is an absolute professional

in the case of conventional media. And Charlie brings us a viewpoint which is an ideal mix of branding and direct response.

lot of the work we do for our purchasers may be very direct response pushed, however we additionally do a good quantity of branding.

And in order that’s uncommon to search out somebody who thinks on either side of the kind of advertising mind there. And so Charlie, welcome, it is good to have you ever again.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

So it must be enjoyable. I am trying ahead to having a pleasant little enjoyable chat with you in regards to the notorious conventional media.

There’s so much to cowl, so we should always in all probability get proper into it.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

All proper, good. sure, Charlie is a really matter of truth and a vital a part of our staff. So Charlie, I came visiting to this concept as I used to be searching for a podcast visitor and considering by way of who we should always have.

And also you and I’ve achieved webinars and totally different podcasts and issues prior to now, however we’ve not achieved one in fairly some time.

And I believe right this moment the market has modified, And are years collectively. And now there’s those who… and by no means even critically thought of conventional media.

I assume it does not even make their radar. so there’s lot of individuals that may say that conventional media is both useless or simply just for tremendous previous individuals.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

But it surely’s like, what is going on on on the market right this moment?

 Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

We’ll go into extra element, however simply within the large image.

Charlie DeNatale (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, , Stewart, imply, we may in all probability do considered one of these podcasts or webinars on daily basis as a result of that is how rapidly the media is altering on the market.

And significantly even should you incorporate AI into the combination now, each time you flip round, there’s one thing new. because it pertains to the standard media, I am glad we’ll have the chance to debate the relevance of conventional media in right this moment’s media panorama as a result of I believe some do contemplate it to be a useless medium and a few do contemplate it to be kind of a passé and outdated.

Nonetheless, my conviction at this level of the evolution of digital know-how is that individuals must take a more in-depth have a look at conventional media.

and never simply brush it off as a result of there are parts of it nowadays that should be extra rigorously checked out.

So every time I communicate on conventional media, I do not really feel I wish to persuade a consumer to do conventional media.

What I wish to do is I wish to educate them on the place conventional media matches in right this moment. After which collaboratively, we may make that call as as to if or not conventional media continues to be an essential part to their general advertising marketing campaign.

So while you began off your query, you mentioned some individuals assume it is useless and likewise it is for very previous individuals.

So the broad stroke assertion of it being useless is clearly not true. There are examples we’ll share right this moment that actually make it not a useless medium.

After which so far as the very previous individuals, that may be a greater image as a result of generationally, means habits are actually from youthful individuals on the age of 15 to older individuals on the age of 80, 90, all of them devour their media so much otherwise right this moment.

So while you discuss conventional media being primarily for previous individuals, there’s relevance of fact to that assertion. So let’s outline older individuals first.

That could be a 45 yr previous and older group. Now that does not imply a forty five yr previous is older. However within the media world, that’s the group from an age perspective that’s nonetheless consuming conventional media.

So after we consider using it and we take into consideration its relevance and significance, I do not assume there’s any denying that conventional media is now only a part of promoting.

The digital evolution is actual. The AI coming down the street is actual. However all of those are put right into a bucket of media for campaigns that assist purchasers, significantly in our healthcare enterprise, that conventional media part has to at the very least be thought-about so as to make our campaigns extra profitable.

So on this podcast right this moment, I hope that we are able to educate and have individuals take just a bit little bit of a more in-depth have a look at conventional media as a result of should you hear it is useless or should you hear revenues are declining, you bought to look past that.

Why is that? The place are these revenues declining? Why are these revenues declining? So I might prefer to get into slightly bit extra of that after we get additional alongside right here.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So I might say simply a few issues for context. What’s, , as , and I’ve labored with numerous main markets for our purchasers everywhere in the nation.

, we pull collectively and might’t our studies, for instance. pattern analysis studies. there’s hundreds of thousands of {dollars} nonetheless being spent in market locations like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, all the main media markets, hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in conventional.

So it is humorous as a result of should you simply say, properly, yeah, no one’s doing this anymore. It is slightly naive, proper? he is many hundreds of thousands of {dollars} being spent, anyone’s watching, proper?

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Additionally, Charlie, course, , we simply bought off the telephone, or I’ve slightly convention name with our staff this morning, getting ready for a gathering with considered one of our hospital purchasers.

And, , as , for our listeners, there is definitely loads of seniors at hospitals, proper? It is form of a factor. And, , that dialogue completely consists of conventional media, and the way will we attain seniors in these classes, in each a branding standpoint and a service line standpoint.

So, there’s nonetheless a task for conventional media, in that exact case, they’re situated in a really lovely location, the place they’ve each kind of semi-urban, actually rural affected person populations, for broad classes, totally different media methods for all of the totally different counties they serve. So, conventional media may be very a lot a line whereas in these circumstances. So, Charlie, I challenged you, know, as we talked about, this world is altering always and information. Let’s discuss some latest information.

Like, let’s run us by way of some related information. assume it might be useful.

Charlie DeNatale

Past simply the quantity of {dollars} spent. Yeah. So, Stuart, earlier you talked about you used the phrase hundreds of thousands of {dollars} that advertisers are nonetheless placing on the market.

I might prefer to put the letter B in entrance of that as a substitute of hundreds of thousands, as a result of it is billions. And I might prefer to quote some statistics from 2024, and likewise provide you with kind of an thought why there typically is a misinterpretation about conventional media.

So, in 2024, simply tv and radio alone, there was roughly $32 billion spent nationwide in the USA for these two mixed mediums.

Nonetheless, Nonetheless, in that very same analysis that I learn, it additionally mentioned that was a 9%, there’s going to be a 9%, I am sorry, let me return, 32 billion is a projection for 2025.

What the analysis research confirmed is that that projection for radio and TV is a 9% decline from 2024. So the very first thing individuals have a look at is, properly, there is a 9% decline.

That implies that these types of media are deteriorating, however while you look nearer, the explanation there is a 9% decline is return to 2024.

That was a political yr, and it was additionally an Olympic yr. There’s some huge cash that is pumped into TV and radio and politics in addition to Olympics.

So a 9% decline versus 2024, they’re factoring within the amount of cash from political in addition to from the Olympics that got here into TV and radio.

So let’s not have a look at the 9% decline and abruptly strategy this in a destructive means. The reality of the matter is the quantity you wish to have a look at is the $32 billion projected in 2025.

That’s going to be spent on US broadcast TV and cable TV in addition to terrestrial radio. So this doesn’t keep in mind something that’s achieved on streaming providers.

That is solely broadcast TV, cable TV, and terrestrial radio. So while you have a look at that form of income, you then should say to your self, okay, properly, who’re these geniuses which might be spending this sort of cash on a medium that lots of people really feel is a useless medium?

Nicely, should you have a look at the class of companies that spend this sort of cash, you might then perceive to some extent, why conventional media is getting used. As a result of keep in mind, the important thing to conventional tv, that might be what we name linear TV, the important thing to that’s the attain that that offers you.

Tv will provide you with that attain, broadcast TV will, in contrast to nearly some other media type, besides perhaps for billboards in an area market.

So individuals nonetheless wish to use that attain medium to perform a few of their targets with their campaigns. So while you have a look at the income projected for 2025, simply on TV and radio, at $32 billion, the finance trade is excessive on that checklist.

The training trade is excessive on that checklist of spenders. Car trade is excessive on that checklist of spenders. Lots of sports activities programming has cash pumped into TV and radio.

Nonetheless, let’s discuss healthcare and the place is healthcare on that checklist? What I discovered in my analysis and to some extent, even within the each day contact that we now have with our personal purchasers, the healthcare discipline, the medical doctors, the advertising administrators, the individuals accountable for healthcare entities, it isn’t that they do not wish to spend on conventional media.

It is that it is kind of a international part to them. And in loads of the analysis you’ll learn, healthcare suppliers mentioned we might like to spend more cash on conventional media, however we do not perceive the way it matches in nowadays.

And I believe that is one of many issues hopefully that I can share not solely right here on this platform, however that I try to share once I clarify why conventional media is essential to loads of the healthcare purchasers that we cope with on it an on a regular basis foundation.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

That makes loads of sense, Charlie, one of many issues that once I’m going again to what I mentioned earlier, that was hundreds of thousands and hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in particular person markets in healthcare spending a girl.

I wasn’t clear sufficient about that. So we’re speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars} in healthcare inside like a market like Chicago, not to mention the bigger billions of {dollars} nationwide throughout all industries.

So let’s develop slightly bit extra. How is media being consumed right this moment simply in broad phrases?

Charlie DeNatale

Such a loaded query, as a result of that is the place you get into these age gaps within the generations. And should you have a look at this in a extra granular means, an 18 to 24 yr previous isn’t watching conventional TV.

Let’s be clear about that. A 24 to 35 yr previous is much less prone to be watching conventional TV and even listening to terrestrial radio.

Let’s be completely clear about that. We’re not denying it. and we’re attempting to not persuade individuals that there’s something aside from these sorts of statistics.

So the best way most individuals of all age teams are consuming media, there’s one frequent denominator. They’re all consuming media on-line.

There isn’t any query about that. 75-year-olds, 80-year-olds are on-line studying information on the CNN web site, the Fox Information web site. They’re checking their climate on-line.

There isn’t any denying that the digital evolution current on-line is now being consumed by all age teams. Okay, so on condition that’s a truth.

In the event you have a look at the 45 and older age group and we’ll have a look at tv because the one instance, one of many statistics is what number of hours every week does an 18 to 34-year-old spend watching tv, common linear TV.

That is a minimal quantity, it is perhaps lower than an hour every week that these individuals in that age group are watching linear TV.

Now while you get into the 35 and older, abruptly it is three hours perhaps every week that that age group is watching linear TV or listening to the terrestrial radio.

Now go 45 and over. Swiftly you are as much as six to seven to eight hours every week of consumption of linear TV.

That is broadcast TV, cable TV or terrestrial radio. So while you have a look at how persons are consuming media and also you wish to apply that to a media marketing campaign for a consumer, you clearly should look what’s the target market that the consumer is attempting to succeed in as a result of as a media purchaser, I might be fired if I instructed you because the proprietor of Healthcare Success that I’ll be linear TV advertisements for

or a consumer that is attempting to succeed in a youthful age group of their 20s or 30s. It could make no sense, however you must have a look at all of those generational ages earlier than you’ll be able to say, I wish to goal this viewers with tv or terrestrial radio or billboards.

So the best way the media is consumed varies by age group and as that youthful age group, and that is essential, as a result of we bought to look 5 years down the street, proper?

Notably for my sake, my I am a media purchaser, proper? So 5 years down the street, because the child boomers and the 70s and 80-year-olds cross away, and the youthful age group of 20s and 30s and 40s begin to develop into 50s and 60s, they don’t seem to be going to gravitate in the direction of conventional media.

Why? As a result of they’re rising up otherwise, proper? We grew up watching tv, sitting on the sofa in our lounge.

With our households consuming snacks, the youthful group now, 18 to 40, for instance, they’re rising up otherwise, so their habits are totally different.

So 5 years from now, should you and I are speaking on this identical platform about conventional media and the place we’re 5 years from now, the dialog’s going to be slightly bit totally different.

And I believe that is a actuality.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So, enjoyable truth, Charlie, you do not know this about me, however I wrote a paper in faculty for additional credit score in regards to the eventual demise of newspapers and I labored for a newspaper.

I used to be, that is when the even pre kind of web, as we all know it right this moment was starting to occur and there have been various things on the market like CompuServe and totally different providers that had been on the market, and it was fairly straightforward to see declining newspapers then.

So it has been a very long time coming and people habits individuals develop up with are, , unchanging. So enjoyable truth, I’ve a neighbor who nonetheless will get his newspaper thrown at him on daily basis, and , my canine bark just about each morning, you are the newspaper man.

And like, I have not, , I bought used to working, I driving over, subscribed to the newspaper for many years.

It is simply not my behavior. And it is humorous, you must watch out as a result of even with the age teams, individuals devour media otherwise. So my spouse, for instance, , nonetheless listens to terrestrial as a result of she’s driving much more than me.

And so now once I’m within the automotive, I both take heed to nothing or I am streaming. So it is like, you actually bought to watch out when you consider stereotypes, proper?

I am, , the standard media I am consuming is primarily outside as a result of, , I’ve bought streaming providers on each, , TV in addition to on audio.

However my spouse is far more into, , extra conventional stuff, significantly in the case of terrestrial radio. He nonetheless has her favourite exhibits, and on the identical time she listens to podcasts on a regular basis.

So it is like there’s gradations right here. So let’s drill down slightly extra although. Like one of many issues that I believe is related to healthcare and it is a enjoyable truth.

I keep in mind as soon as I went out to seek the advice of with a consumer, that is fairly some time in the past, checked out me and was like, you are not going to place my face on billboards, are you?

And again then, , being on a billboard was like the last word of unethical for a physician. Now in fact medical doctors wish to be on billboards and each hospital has billboards in all places.

So however outside reaches, everyone of all ages group, so it is onerous to see that one going away and positively large cash there.

So let’s discuss out of dwelling for slightly bit.

Charlie DeNatale

Yeah, so that you hit it proper on the top, Stewart, by the best way, simply humorous tales is as a result of we deal and speak with medical doctors fairly a bit.

Generally it is form of humorous while you discuss billboards now they usually’re actually extra receptive to billboards right this moment than they had been, for instance 20 years in the past, however typically I ponder why they actually wish to be on billboards.

Is it simply to stroke the ego as a result of they see their identify or their face up there? Or is it actually to assist them develop their enterprise?

However billboards clearly is the least impacted of the standard media types by the digital evolution. And what we’re seeing with development over the subsequent three to 5 years is billboards can have the best development price of any of the standard media types over the subsequent 5 years.

You wish to put {that a} totally different means. They’re in all probability not going away as a result of take note if you consider it from a standard sense standpoint, the analogy you introduced up about you and your spouse, your spouse’s within the automotive so much. So she’s listening to terrestrial radio or at the very least that is her selection. However the different a part of it’s except all of us cease driving, except all of us cease taking mass transportation and who is aware of perhaps sometime that is going to occur. I do not know. However except that occurs, billboards are the apparent kinds of media that you’d wish to expose a message to as a result of persons are simply nonetheless on the market of their vehicles and it is bought nice retention.

So while you have a look at billboards additionally, you additionally haven’t got to fret about essentially the generational problems with, , are they consuming this in the event that they’re 18 or 19 or 20 years previous.

Nicely, 18 and 19 and 20-year-olds are driving, proper? 35-year-olds are driving. 45-year-olds are driving. 80-year-olds, they might not be presupposed to be driving, however they’re, they usually’re nonetheless on the market, proper?

they will,  So, and imagine me, I am kind of in that age group the place I am beginning to see three strains on the street, which is not superb. However you continue to, so long as these age teams are driving, billboards are going to be on the market. The opposite factor that is essential about billboards. They’ve expanded what they will supply as a part of their leap, so to talk, into the digital world or that form of part.

So, for instance, should you do 10 billboards in a market, like, for instance, Chicago, for instance, you set up 10 billboards, properly, now these billboard corporations have a platform that they apply referred to as geo-fencing.

And mainly, they do a geo-fence round every billboard in order that when the target market particular person, for instance you are the target market Stewart, you are driving by a billboard.

After which, after you cross that billboard and we captured you, you resolve to go onto your cellphone and have a look at what the climate goes to be the subsequent week.

So, you pull up the climate app, properly, we’ll feed you a digital advert at that time. So, you might see how the evolution of feeding individuals data on their telephones for example.

has been an expanded type for the standard static billboards, in addition to the digital billboards that you simply see very regularly all through.

So, Billboard projected billing for 2025 is increased than tv billing and radio billing, which I reported to you earlier than at $32 billion, and never solely is it increased, however in contrast to TV and radio, they’re displaying a 4% to five% development in income in 2025.

So, it is one of many few conventional mediums that are not essentially going backwards by way of its advert income development.

In the event you have a look at healthcare, significantly as a result of that is our area of interest and our class of enterprise, much more of our healthcare purchasers are understanding higher tips on how to use billboards and After we make a presentation, billboards are so much simpler for them to grasp as this can be a good type of media, as a result of it is smart.

It makes an excessive amount of logical sense, whereas with TV and radio, you continue to have slightly little bit of convincing to do and while you make your pitch for why somebody ought to use radio or TV.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Proper, I will simply give a pair fast ideas to complement what you simply mentioned. one, after we take into consideration out-of-home versus billboards, that features numerous different choices, proper?

That may embody, , even occasions, web science, or to conclude, , for instance, every time I drive to Los Angeles, there is a constructing there, an previous industrial constructing that has this huge LED lights all the best way round the entire constructing.

It is actually spectacular, really, they usually’ve bought large advertisers on that. And they also’ve bought movement graphics on this huge industrial constructing.

In Las Vegas, there’s nearly nary a spot that does not have promoting on it anyplace. The cabs, the loos, in all places.

So out of house is there’s 1,000,000 totally different alternatives over there. One other factor about out of dwelling after which additionally such as you mentioned form of will get into level the place as like is that this digital or is that this conventional however we’ll save that argument apart.

The opposite factor that I believe individuals overlook about is out of house is on a price per publicity foundation very efficient oftentimes.

So it could be costly to purchase a billboard however when you might have half million vehicles driving the day on a price per publicity foundation it’ll be very, very value efficient.

Not usually the perfect direct response medium however usually from consciousness and branding standpoint it may be very, very value efficient and we may clearly spend podcasts in every of those media after we simply haven’t got time however we’ll speak subsequent let’s discuss radio.

What’s taking place on radio as of late?

Charlie DeNatale

So I’ve a really outspoken opinion in regards to the world of terrestrial radio as of late and it is in all probability an opinion that might be slightly controversial, however I do see this as a media purchaser. I believe there’s been slightly little bit of dysfunction among the many conglomerate media companies and the way they’ve directed their radio stations by way of the expansion of enterprise.

And this is what I imply by this. About 10, 12 years in the past, because the digital evolution actually picked up velocity, lot of those companies who personal radio stations constructed digital platforms as an enhancement of what they had been going to promote as a part of their terrestrial radio gross sales pitch.

What would in the end occur, as you may count on, these investments on the digital facet and streaming, etcetera, even to the purpose of podcasting, etcetera, these platforms had been fairly an costly funding for these companies.

And what occurred was, they mandated their gross sales individuals to promote these digital platforms first, even over their terrestrial radio their bread and butter which bought them to the place they had been so i would be getting calls on a regular basis because the media purchaser and i am saying wait a minute wait a minute are you with the radio station, or are you some kind of a digital firm what are you as a result of even the gross sales reps weren’t geared up on the time to promote that digital platform however they had been mandated to take action quick ahead to 2025 this is what you are seeing on this planet of radio companies numerous layoffs why are you seeing numerous layoffs as a result of the cash that was invested on that streaming facet did not essentially generate the income they had been anticipating so what they wound up doing is that they wanted to chop bills in order that they began firing expertise, and many others. And earlier than it, a few of the well-known personalities who had been making some huge cash on radio stations had been being let go.

Now, I am not within the interior works of each company on this nation because it pertains to operating radio stations, however I’ve slightly little bit of frequent sense.

And a few of the issues that they’ve achieved to reinforce their company income stream did not work out. So what does that do because it pertains to you and I as media individuals and to the purchasers that we service?

The firings do not essentially matter. You are still going to have on-air expertise. It is a matter of who the on-air expertise is and whether or not or not you wish to align your self.

Nonetheless, what’s winding up taking place now could be these companies are beginning to return to their terrestrial radio bread and butter.

So while you look now at what advertisers are on the radio facet, Radio has survived within the final 15 years, satellite tv for pc radio. Terrestrial radio has survived satellite tv for pc radio. Terrestrial radio has survived Spotify. Terrestrial radio has survived even podcasts, as a result of podcasts now are nearly a companion of terrestrial radio.

It is an enhanced type of that. So the podcasts are literally extra in keeping with terrestrial radio. Now, the opposite a part of terrestrial radio that is essential to recollect if you end up an advertiser is there is no denying that the music codecs on terrestrial radio is kind of a declining breed, as a result of they’re getting music disseminated in numerous different methods.

The information stations, and the sports activities speak stations, and the controversial speak stations, significantly within the political world. world we reside in right this moment are nonetheless very, very worthwhile.

Who’s the viewers that listens to these? In the event you exclude nationwide public radio, it is nonetheless the older age group. So it comes again to that age group once more.

And being positive that your advertiser is in a reputable atmosphere, the information atmosphere, the sports activities speak atmosphere, or the speak atmosphere typically.

So you are still age being a premier significance to no matter you promote on conventional media radio.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Is smart, Charlie. we actually use radio so much for in loads of methods and remotes our sports activities or speak radio or, , once more, consciousness performs.

There’s positively a spot for it. And also you’re proper. is unquestionably some confusion there for some time there specifically.

However it’s, , an incredible automobile to work with. We’re in all probability velocity up slightly bit right here, however let’s discuss TV.

TV is, , the entire cable TV versus conventional and, , and the place are we right this moment with TV?

Charlie DeNatale

So what’s streaming achieved for us because it pertains to TV? It is clearly placing the cable enterprise out. All people’s chopping boards on conventional cable.

This is the opposite factor that is taking place. Not solely is the streaming service disrupted cable TV, and I will get to broadcast in a second, however should you had learn the information not too long ago, I might say as latest as 5 – 6 months in the past, what you had been seeing is loads of skilled sports activities leagues transferring away from cable TV for his or her broadcast.

And as a substitute, there’s signing big contracts with streaming providers, whether or not it’s Netflix or YouTube or Apple. So main league baseball is an instance, simply fired ESPN.

They’re not going to broadcast their video games on ESPN. That’s loads of income that ESPN goes to lose.

So they will take main league baseball is clearly gravitating in the direction of streaming providers the place individuals such as you and I we’re sports activities followers.

And we wish to watch baseball all year long, whether or not it’s our native staff or some other. We will pay 20 bucks a month for the subscription.

That is the place they wish to go. And the native regional sports activities corporations are all going bankrupt. As a result of they have no content material anymore.

So that they’re gone. In order that takes care of loads of the cable income that was coming in. So not solely you and I as subscribers of cable TV are chopping the cords to enterprise off into different issues like streaming and binge watching on streaming providers, but additionally they’re shedding the entire income that’s coming in by way of primarily sports activities leagues.

So cable, which is totally different than broadcast, tv, linear TV. is clearly on the demise. As a media purchaser, I am very shy about shopping for cable for my purchasers anymore.

So I in all probability would not be recommending it. On the linear facet, it is information and daytime programming from an area market foundation that can survive for the subsequent 5 to seven years.

And I hope that individuals will quote this from me right this moment as a result of seven years from now, I might like them to return again and say, that man Charlie was proper.

That linear TV did survive. However why? They did not survive due to their prime time programming as a result of they don’t seem to be getting the content material anymore for that.

The content material goes to the streaming providers. However what they may survive with is their information on an area foundation.

And I am not, I emphasize that due to the political atmosphere right this moment. It is not the nationwide CNN or the nationwide Fox Information that takes sides politically.

The native market stations, their newscast is just about down the center. So that they’re nonetheless going to outlive and once more, it is an older group.

So we bought to do not forget that as properly.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

So it is actually humorous, Charlie, we now have a trip rental and we, , reduce the wire of very long time in the past right here at our major residence, however we needed to carry cable TV again for older company as a result of they could not determine the streaming stuff.

And it was humorous. Claire I simply bought by way of, my spouse and I simply bought again from with my oldest teenage daughter from Joshua Tree the place we had been a visitor at a trip rental.

all they’ve is RoKu, they didn’t even have any, like, I simply all the time marvel like, how does grandma understand how to do that or grandpa?

Like these are like, there’s loads of, , you get your service, click on then and you bought to love stream it and get your passwords out and all that.

So it is positively altering for positive. Let’s simply spend a pair minutes on junk mail and earlier than we wrap up right here. Junk mail ideas?

Charlie DeNatale

Yeah, so junk mail is one other survivor. I believe it is kind of within the billboard. It is gonna dangle in there as a result of the one factor that impacts junk mail to some extent is postage charges And if these postage charges proceed to extend and abruptly it does not develop into as environment friendly to purchase junk mail Then clearly purchasers are gonna draw back from it or advertisers However as of right this moment 2025 the junk mail enterprise going into the income projections of ’25 is kind of wholesome and Clearly should you do junk mail proper the ROI might be fairly important So artistic is an enormous essential a part of junk mail So that you all the time bought to recollect about that and likewise there was a analysis survey that was achieved that 81% of advertisers who used junk mail in 2024 Have mentioned that they plan on coming again and Rising their junk mail funds in 2025 most of those advertisers had been model identify advertisers.

So maintain it that in thoughts that 81% of that group goes to return again in ’25. So I would not have a look at junk mail as going anyplace as a part of this conventional media outlook.

And I might have a look at as a really, essential a part of campaigns typically when applicable and likewise the artistic has bought to be relevant as properly.

Fast, quick ahead to newspapers and magazines.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Nicely, earlier than do this, simply wish to make a touch upon junk mail. So the traditional for junk mail, a few issues. One is junk mail is intrusive, proper? You possibly can’t flip it off. It involves your home. You must cope with it. You possibly can throw it away or not, however you must cope with it. So again within the day, buyers had been implausible, issues like Valpack and Avon, these issues. They usually can nonetheless be a part of a combination. That is not likely what we’re speaking about right this moment.

Junk mail from a B2B standpoint might be highly effective, though it is powerful to search out individuals like, if you wish to attain me at my workplace, good luck.

know, it is like, you  can’t. So, however the traditional software on junk mail is well being care is Medicare Benefit. So Medicare Benefit continues to be an open enrollment is, , lastly we’re convincing individuals to do different channels, however actually historically has been all in regards to the insurance coverage guys occasions after which conventional junk mail and TV are the large, and they’re nonetheless large large {dollars} being spent there.

So Medicare Benefit is an enormous person of each junk mail and TV, and we see that so much, however mail positively has nonetheless alternatives as properly.

Does everyone learn newspapers or magazines anymore, Charlie?

Charlie DeNatale

So I mentioned it. You mentioned it earlier. I imply, clearly, the standard media type most impacted by the entire on-line evolution is clearly each day newspapers.

They began going out of enterprise years in the past. You rarely see anyone really holding the the print paper of their arms, though often when on the airport, I see three or 4 older individuals sitting there on the gate, they usually do have an actual newspaper of their hand.

these are you and much between. The each day newspapers are going by the wayside in a short time, if not already. One of many issues I do assume will survive is one thing kind of you referenced earlier is these newspapers which might be thrown in your driveway as a result of, once more, and I’ll reinforce what I’ve mentioned fairly a bit on this hour that we have been spending collectively.

Age is essential right here. It is essential to these individuals older who’re studying a few of these newspapers which might be thrown on the driveway.

They nonetheless learn these. And in case you are an area retailer or an area healthcare facility in an area market reaching a 50 to 55 yr previous, these newspapers might be advantageous they usually’re very cheap.

Why are they advantageous? As a result of the individuals who learn these are primarily fascinated about what is going on on of their quick group.

And there is nothing extra essential to that age group than well being. So they will watch and have a look at these advertisements and they will belief these individuals which might be promoting in these newspapers as a result of these newspapers are nonetheless credible. These are weekly newspapers. They’re not each day. Every little thing else within the journal world and within the each day newspapers, lengthy gone.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

I am simply on mute. Curiously sufficient on that, what you are referring to there’s what we name the consumers, that are oftentimes free, though my neighbor that is getting the man driving up is paying for a subscriptions. He is one of many final diehards there.

Curiously sufficient, there’s nonetheless niches. Like for instance, I discussed our trip rental. Although we do not reside in Palm Springs, we really feel an affinity for that.

So I’ve subscribed really to the digital version of their publication, or newspaper. It by no means occurred to me get the onerous model. However I do really feel like an area reference to that. So it is humorous, I chortle. I do not do it in Orange County the place I reside on daily basis, however I do it there.

Charlie DeNatale

Stewart, you are too refined of a market or to return to the newspaper.

going to take a look at the web stuff. So that you’re from the exception of the rule.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

That is true. So The it’s enjoyable to see all these things advanced and it is the magazines for instance had been such an enormous deal and people are gone I exploit Apple information for my information nearly every little thing.

I’ve a paid subscription for that and for properly the premium kind of Apple every little thing for subscription which is superior by the best way however the I watch my very own behaviors and watch everyone else’s however once more there’s nonetheless a lot alternative.

One query I did not discuss as we prepped for this however I believe it was price a kind of mini industrial earlier than we get to the final piece is like what is the benefit of utilizing a media purchaser and and particularly in healthcare why ought to they attain out to us and speak to you, Charlie?

Charlie DeNatale

Nicely I hope a few of the issues that I introduced up right this moment on this podcast goes to be a adequate cause as a result of critically I imply should you’re a media purchaser and also you’re it is identical to some other enterprise to it’s a media purchaser.

Particularly have been round so long as I’ve you have a look at each nook and cranny into each little bit of analysis that you simply undergo And also you wish to just remember to’re studying the entire story and many instances should you’re a consumer wanting to make use of your individual media However I can nearly assure you they don’t seem to be all of these items.

not going past simply what they learn in a single sentence So a media purchaser is advantageous extra so right this moment than it in all probability was years in the past I imply, I solely had conventional media 25-30 years in the past to fret about now.

You have to determine properly How does this match into the general Advertising and marketing marketing campaign that features a digital part? So, media patrons I believe are way more advantageous to have right this moment as is as aren’t businesses who’re full service And that is a key as a result of full service is essential as a result of these days it is extra in regards to the holistic Advertising and marketing strategy that mixes conventional that mixes search engine optimisation that mixes PPC, and many others. So it is essential to have that company’s experience.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, I might say that And I discuss this so much currently, , right this moment the panorama broadly is there’s advertising businesses which might be actually branding businesses.

That is what they do. They are saying to do different stuff. They’re not likely, particularly once they’re usually owned by older founders oftentimes to be actually the extra artistic those who subcontract out the digital stuff. Or you might have digital businesses that are not actually good at artistic or branding. They once more, they are saying they do not actually do it. And nearly no one even thinks about conventional media. So it is like with our company specifically, , so long as I am, , of accountable for the route, I’m all the time going to have that built-in.

And that is an enormous factor of our strategy is trying on the branding facet, the direct response facet, the standard, the digital.

And positively we do a complete lot extra digital. However, , Charlie nearly all the time has a seat on the desk, at the very least within the planning dialogue.

So even after we’re doing solely digital, conventional, many circumstances nonetheless has a spot. Any remaining ideas, Charlie, as we wrap up right here?

Charlie DeNatale

Yep. In a short time, you are going to hear the time period fairly a bit going ahead, multi-channel campaigns. Hold that in thoughts, as a result of what that basically means is you are combining all these assets of media to make your marketing campaign profitable.

And a part of that’s conventional media is now a part of a multi-channel marketing campaign. It is not the only real media type any longer, it is a part of multi-channel advertising.

Secondly, billboards and radio are going to outlive fairly properly and maintain their income and maintain their place within the promoting trade for some time.

So these two media sources, by the best way, which go hand-in-hand in compatibility, you are open air, you are going be listening to radio within the automotive, you are seeing your billboard, all of it registers.

So billboards and radio for positive are going to be distinguished nonetheless for the subsequent three to 5 years. TV is a wait and see.

I might encourage everyone on the market who’s listening to this to simply form of monitor the best way TV is evolving, as a result of it’ll change each single day the extra these sports activities leagues change their strategy, the extra streaming providers.

Discover out whether or not or not they will be worthwhile within the subsequent 10 years or not. All of that is going to vary the TV panorama. In order that’s kind of a wait and see. Media patrons which might be across the nation who purchase conventional media, and by the best way, they’re few and much between as of late.

They’re going to have the ability to present all advertisers with a major rationalization as to how and why conventional media can be utilized.

Not going to power it down their throat, not going to persuade them. We’re simply going to teach them to make sure they perceive earlier than they spend their hard-earned {dollars}.

That is the best way I can summarize this up.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Yeah, I simply assume that is the hot button is that it’s multimedia. actually, have purchasers that simply wish to do, for instance, paid search or search engine optimisation.

However after we’re the extra refined, extra business-oriented ones usually are kind of a encompass sound strategy, like how will we attain individuals in all places they reside and switch?

How will we , do that stuff strategically, not simply by a bunch of techniques. So, Charlie, it is a pleasure working with you all the time.

In the present day was enjoyable. You realize, we get to do that in, I do know, yearly or two, , we’re working collectively in a gathering in only a couple hours presenting to our hospital consumer.

Oh, anyway, Charlie, thanks very a lot.

Charlie DeNatale

In fact, thanks everybody.

Stewart Gandolf (Healthcare Success)

Thanks for listening, everyone. Hopefully, this was useful for you. Take care.