How can healthcare leaders deal with excessive turnover charges and construct a tradition that retains prime expertise?
On this episode, Stewart Gandolf talks with Kristin Baird, President and CEO of Baird Group, to discover what it actually takes to retain nice expertise in healthcare, beginning with management.
Drawing from her expertise and her course,Be the Chief No one Desires To Go away, Kris shares actionable methods for reworking management tradition, bettering communication, and aligning groups round function. Whether or not you’re an government overseeing a well being system or a frontrunner inside a pharma or gadget firm, this dialog is full of helpful insights that will help you create a office the place prime expertise thrives.
Why This Episode Issues
Healthcare continues to face staffing challenges like excessive turnover charges, burnout, and disengagement that influence the affected person expertise.
On this episode, Kris explains why management improvement should transcend titles and checklists and develop into a transformational journey. She shares particular management behaviors that construct stronger, extra linked groups, bettering affected person satisfaction, outcomes, and organizational tradition. These enhancements foster a more healthy office and immediately contribute to operational effectivity, lowering prices related to turnover and burnout.
Notice: The next uncooked, AI-generated transcript is offered as an extra useful resource for many who favor to not hearken to the podcast recording. It has not been edited or reviewed for accuracy.
Stewart Gandolf
Hello, everybody, Stewart Gandolf. Right here once more, with one other. Podcast and at this time, in my collection of kind of best hits in healthcare, Kris Baird is anyone I’ve identified a very long time. Kris is likely one of the leaders within the area, notably within the hospital aspect, doing loads with affected person expertise management, telephones, high quality, a lot of various things. 1st of all, welcome, Kris.
Kris Baird
Thanks. It is nice to be right here.
Stewart Gandolf
Sure, and also you sound good to do as nicely. So, your mic is working. That is nice, at all times good on a podcast so I wished to ask you to start out off by simply I’ve identified you endlessly, and definitely folks which have been following healthcare. You are fairly well-known, however for these individuals who do not know. You inform somewhat bit about your organization and your background and the sorts of stuff you do each day. Then we’ll concentrate on the precise matter.
Kris Baird
Yeah, thanks. Nicely, so my background is scientific. I began as a registered nurse, and I transitioned later in my profession to being in command of advertising and marketing and enterprise improvement. And for lots of people, it looks as if, Wow, that is fairly a soar. It actually wasn’t for me. I’ve at all times been entrepreneurial. I’ve at all times had an actual curiosity in advertising and marketing and enterprise improvement. And so, it was type of a pure match for me. I had performed a number of writing had books revealed already by that point, after which I transitioned into working as a marketing consultant in affected person expertise. It is what I did my grasp’s thesis on, and I used to be type of on the bleeding fringe of that affected person expertise, I imply on the time it was my first e book was Buyer Service in Healthcare: A Grassroots Method to Making a Tradition of Service Excellence. I am.
Stewart Gandolf
Customer support nah, nah, no person cares about that! Haha.
Kris Baird
And again. Then, actually, folks had been me like I had 2 heads like customer support and healthcare. So, we have performed a number of adjustments as an trade. However as I began this enterprise it developed from me, pondering I might go in and seek the advice of to, Hey, wait a minute, although each hospital in America has tons of knowledge on affected person satisfaction scores or affected person expertise scores. It would not essentially imply they consider it, proper? And in order that impressed me to start out a thriller purchasing division in order that we might go in and actually do a pulse test on what’s actually taking place, , give, give folks a slice of the present actuality. So, after I describe my firm, I say, consider us as a magnifying glass, a mirror, and a map and with the magnifying glass. That is the thriller purchasing and the tradition evaluation. We’ll dig deep, . Actually, take a look at your tradition, see what’s maintaining you from making the progress that you really want? We’ll maintain up the mirror and say, Look, that is what you actually appear like to your stakeholders. Listed below are among the gaps which might be maintaining you from making progress together with your tradition and affected person expertise, after which we co-create the roadmap to get them from the place they’re to actually, the place they need to be. So, with that comes a number of management improvement, frontline workers coaching, serving to them establish what are the weather of the tradition that basically must be modified.
Stewart Gandolf
That makes a number of sense. And I used to be guffawing with you a second in the past. It is, , the thought of affected person expertise. I bear in mind medical doctors not very way back. Say, I do not care in the event that they like me. I simply get them higher. It is like, nicely, it is somewhat extra sophisticated than that.
So at this time, after we talked about, , getting again collectively to do a podcast we had talked about varied completely different points of all this, after which the management half is one thing we actually have not lined on our podcast at the least not since I can bear in mind, it is an important matter, and we simply have not talked about it loads. So, I assumed, , that might be an attention-grabbing matter, notably because you created a course. And so, , well being care. In case you’re in healthcare, you consider every part is completely different in healthcare, and to a big diploma it’s however like what are among the frequent management challenges that you simply deal with, that , which might be frequent to healthcare, that perhaps others would possibly miss? What are a few of these actual tangible points that come up?
Kris Baird
Oh, undoubtedly , communication, tradition, hiring, , managing tough conditions, serving to your crew develop into and keep engaged, retaining them, . So these are among the issues we deal with. Nevertheless it’s not solely the what it is the how that makes it distinctive. And I say that as a result of if you consider the title, be the chief, no person needs to depart. Okay. Turnover is so excessive and so pricey for organizations. Proper now, a brand new report from NSI got here out and it and it stated, the up to date report stated, It is $61,000 to switch an RN. And if you take a look at the turnover, it is pricey. So, we obtained to try this, . So, the explanation, the why is, folks go away their bosses, not their organizations. You’ve got most likely heard that one million occasions. However the how, is how folks study and retain info is actually essential. And after I take into consideration grownup learners. Oftentimes, when folks introduce coaching of their group, it is transactional. Not transformational. And so typically they’re checking a field, . Whereas, to actually make change and to actually retain your workers. That management improvement actually must be transformational.
Stewart Gandolf
So how do you do this? As a result of, , I consider at this time. We’re all busy. Nicely, most of us are busy anyway. So, and it is very easy. I bear in mind as soon as I heard a gross sales coach means again, stated, Hey, to this annoyed salesperson. You are simply part of the passing parade of their life. And that is type of irritating when you consider it. You realize, you assume like they, you’ve got their rapt consideration, they usually’re actually centered on what it’s you are making an attempt to persuade them to do. And in your case you are making an attempt to persuade or prepare them on what they need to do. After which the subsequent minute they’re on a unique name, utterly completely different matter. How do you retain them engaged? So, they bear in mind any of it versus? Oh, I like Kris. I bear in mind one thing out about it. I am undecided. Why, how do you do this?
Kris Baird
Nicely, there’s an artwork and a science to it, and being raised by educators in my family after we performed faculty, we had the actual deal. I imply, I had the Instructor’s Information to every part. So, I used to be studying targets and do these actions and issues like that. And so, after we created the course. We actually determined it needed to be transformational, not transactional, which is, you are completely proper. Persons are actually busy. Transactional could be okay. I’ll watch this video and test that it is performed. Transformational is actually about extra hands-on utility, as a result of grownup learners need to know, what’s in it for me. How is that this going to make my life higher, simpler? You realize. How? How is it going to assist? So, , at having arms on utility, giving them an opportunity to brainstorm or ask questions, drawback, remedy, replicate. So, utilizing hands-on assignments, , they’ll watch movies, after all. However then they’ll give one thing that they need to check out, proper? After which we come collectively, and we have now a bunch dialogue, after which they’ve non-public teaching. So, it is that cycle of studying one thing, making an attempt it out. Speaking about it, getting suggestions, . That is the way you create actual world readiness for them.
Stewart Gandolf
That is smart. So, the I assumed, I am glad to listen to you’ve got a training ingredient in that, as a result of it is 1 factor to look at a course, and it is one other to have, , observe up teaching to use to me. Like, Yeah, yeah. However how do I do that? And I am assuming that occurs loads. Is that usually a crucial a part of your program, or is it? You realize I am assuming it’s. However I do not know.
Kris Baird
It’s, and each the group teaching and the non-public teaching has been very useful for the leaders who take the course within the teams. I typically get suggestions that wow! It is so good to listen to anyone else speak about. They’re having the identical problem. And after I heard you coach them via that drawback. It made a number of sense, and it gave me concepts of what I ought to do subsequent. Proper? So, typically they are not the one being coached, however they’re observing it, after which different occasions. It is a 1 on 1.
Stewart Gandolf
So, what , what are the frequent? In case you, if a frontrunner, is dropping lots of people proper greater than the kind of common to be anticipated. What are the issues which might be you talked about? A few issues like tradition, or no matter? However are there some typical smoking weapons in relation to turnover. Okay, broaden on that for me.
Kris Baird
Completely. And a number of organizations do worker engagement surveys. And so, after they do, the worker engagement surveys, , they are going to have the ability to establish: The place are the issue areas? In order that’s extra of a number one indicator in comparison with the lagging indicator of that is the turnover they’d final yr, proper.
Stewart Gandolf
Proper.
Kris Baird
And so sure, consider me, senior management pays shut consideration in a wholesome setting, proper in a wholesome and accountable setting that they’ll be paying shut consideration to that. And I say that as a result of not each group is wholesome, with an excellent tradition that is gonna work on retention.
Stewart Gandolf
So? Are there any frequent blind spots that you simply see? That? Is it that ? Is it engagement? And what’s? And the way do you improve engagement like? Assist me perceive this.
Okayris Baird
Yeah. So, let me let me method this from type of 2 angles. There are blind spots for the group, and there is blind spots for the person chief proper?
And one of many massive blind spots that I see is that we maintain speaking about breaking down silos. Nevertheless it’s probably not taking place proper. That may be an enormous blind spot for the group, . And let me simply provide you with a advertising and marketing instance. There are such a lot of occasions we go into a company to work on affected person expertise. And I’ll ask, How is advertising and marketing going to be concerned on this tradition transformation? They take a look at me like—why would we have now advertising and marketing concerned? And to a marketer? You chuckle since you’re pondering it is all about, the buyer expertise. However we have created much more silos. Affected person expertise. You realize now that we have now chief expertise officers or expertise managers. That is 1 extra silo. We have created and so, , affected person expertise is siloed once more. So then, leaders do not relate to the model promise proper. You realize, and naturally they’re nicely versed in high quality security. However after we come to connecting the dots with service and , stopping affected person attrition, they don’t seem to be as centered on that and the blind spots for the person leaders. I believe the largest blind spot that we see after we’re teaching is seeing them make the transition from being a person contributor, like me, I used to be an RN. On the bedside, proper? I used to be a person contributor. After which the subsequent day, someday I used to be made a director. I skipped the supervisor and supervisor and went proper to director. And management is a talent set, not a title, proper? Enormous blind spot for organizations. And I can not start to depend for you ways many individuals have been promoted as a result of they’re excellent, clinically or technically, and now they are a chief of typically 80, 90, 100 folks, proper? And so, they have not been adequately ready. So that could be a blind spot.
Stewart Gandolf
That makes a number of sense. And it is humorous, even in a a lot smaller means with our company. If I deliver anyone who’s been an excellent technician to supervising a crew of three or 4. That is a unique world, and never everyone needs to try this, and never everyone can do this. Not everyone is actually arrange for that. And you get into these issues like, nicely, if it is what must be performed proper, I am going to simply do it. It is quicker for me to do it myself. And you’ve got heard that like what number of hundreds of occasions. So, that is definitely frequent. So, turnover is a giant drawback in healthcare. However so is burnout like, you know the way . Like, do you talked about engagement and leaders? And their crew is burn out on a regular basis. It’ll be onerous to be efficient and onerous to retain them like, how will you assist leaders, , cope with burnout as an actual problem.
Kris Baird
Yeah, and it is 2 prong for leaders. One is that they need to be cognizant of their very own burnout, proper? Or, or, , tendency towards burnout, however then additionally they need to be cognizant of their workers and the potential for burnout. So, one of many first strongest prevention parts for burnout, for stopping burnout is staying linked. You realize, lively listening, a frontrunner actively listening to their folks rounding, and I do know leaders hear about rounding on a regular basis. I am not speaking about drive-bys proper? It is not about being seen. It is about seeing, proper? And so actually staying, linked, lively, listening, doing rounding, doing keep interviews and keep interviews are one of the crucial essential issues for a customized retention plan, however they do loads to stop burnout, too, as a result of they will reveal loads about what is going on on within the group. However the different factor that can’t be slighted—is recognition. Serving to folks really feel valued. You realize, I used to be simply studying a put up by a bunch of nurses the place they had been having a dialogue about. Look. I do not thoughts working the additional shifts. I do not thoughts doing this, and this. All I would like is to really feel valued proper. And so, I believe that that recognition, , a basic sweeping. Hey? Thanks, everyone. Good job, . Okay, that good. However developing and saying, You realize, Stewart, I need to thanks for , staying and caring for Mrs. Jones yesterday, and her, and speaking to her household. I do know your shift had ended, and also you had been in your means out the door if you stopped to attach with them, and actually, that that’s really dwelling, our values of respect and dignity. So once more, recognizing the person, after which tying it again to who we’re as a company.
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah, it simply must be purposeful. I believe it is actually onerous once more. We’re all busy to make {that a} behavior versus. And I am nonetheless studying as a frontrunner. I have been engaged on this particular problem extra currently, as a result of, , Aren’t you all completely satisfied, anyway?! Like no, no like, we’re all nonetheless people, we’d like nurturing, particularly for us in an company setting the place everyone is digital. It is even tougher. It’s important to be actually purposeful and attempt to keep in mind that you additionally talked about that you simply had methods for serving to to bridge communication gaps. What sorts of issues are useful there?
Kris Baird
Nicely. Communication is one thing that’s woven all through the course. I imply, from the very 1st module of hiring for match. We’re speaking in regards to the significance of fine communication. And , bridging gaps between, as an example messaging that you simply’re getting from administration, and , rent anyone get anyone in there, , and saying we have to shield our values. So, hiring for match means, you bought to take the time to really ask the questions which might be behavior-based. They are going that will help you get at these. So, instructing these communication expertise, actually is woven all through the complete course. One of many areas that we discover is so essential and so extensively appreciated, is on managing expectations. And anyone had stated to me as soon as, ‘You realize, you do not understand you were not clear on expectations till anyone fails to satisfy them,’ proper?
And I thought of that. And I assumed, Oh, my gosh, that’s painfully true. And so, we spend a number of time speaking about. How do you handle? Expectations? And communication is large in there, and that’s the place you discover so many main communication gaps. What you assume you stated and what they really heard, , are two various things. So, there are gaps, and so studying talk extra clearly and to validate what they heard, after which to observe as much as just be sure you know they did perceive that they are following via and issues like that, after which, after all, again to teaching once more. Teaching is all about communication.
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah, I’d say, one other line I heard from anyone, spacing on her identify. Years in the past, is, how will you anticipate folks to make expectations you’ve got by no means set, or how will you anticipate to make us have expectation the consumer has by no means set such as you actually need to be on the identical web page, and I believe the fallacy is, , you inform anyone as soon as in a gathering you anticipate them to recollect it, and that is actually that is certainly one of my flaws like we talked about this 6 months in the past, and we have not now talked about it once more. It is like folks simply do not retain nicely, particularly in at this time’s world, everyone is, ADD, it’s a must to hit them with a message over and over and over, simplistically to hope for it to stay. And I have been in conferences the place anyone’s complaining a few lack of course of like, wait, you had been a part of that, you documented that. So, it is like they it is very easy for folks to overlook and stuff we have all agreed on. It actually does want fixed, at the least in my expertise, a number of reinforcement. It is like speaking about it as soon as isn’t the identical factor for certain. So, , such as you the workers engagement and affected person expertise and outcomes. How do you join all that collectively?
Kris Baird
Sure, I imply, and there’s sturdy proof of these hyperlinks between, , workers engagement, affected person expertise, and scientific outcomes. You realize, there have been some actually good research which have performed. You realize, there, transformational management is one space, too, that’s so essential in bridging that hole.
I used to be studying an article about nursing and speaking about how, in nursing transformational management is so essential as a result of it helps folks hook up with function. It is all about relationships. It is about feeling heard, after which they will switch that to different folks. So, when folks really feel cared about, they’re extra more likely to care proper to provide care to be caring. I like to think about it. As , all of us run a type of emotional checking account, proper? And you should have deposits made so as to have the ability to give that emotional, , capital away. And so, as leaders, , we have got to be actually conscious about sustaining that. However Press Ganey did a extremely good examine. I believe they revealed it final yr. They had been analyzing like virtually 2 million staff from over 500 location or organizations. And what they confirmed was if you measure workers engagement, these within the prime 25% of worker engagement, the organizations who rating within the prime 25% on common have 38 percentile, not simply, , imply rating, however percentile factors on the affected person surveys, indicating chance to advocate, I imply. And so, , on the finish of the day, as a marketer, , that is the massive query. How doubtless are you to advocate? And that’s, , that is actually essential. And so, there’s additionally, , belief is available in there too. Proper? Affected person belief occurs as you forge a relationship proper? So, the connection builds belief, belief builds compliance, and compliance improves outcomes. And individuals are more likely to hearken to and adjust to anyone that they like and who feels cares about them, that is the underside line.
Stewart Gandolf
That absolutely is smart. So, two extra questions as we wrap up right here. One was about simply management behaviors, you discovered, have the strongest, strongest kind of ripple impact to staff and to engagement.
Kris Baird
Yeah, I’d say, rounding that, after which not the drive-bys, however actually interacting. Rounding. The following one, I’d say, is recognition, significant, customized recognition. And after I speak about recognition, I speak about 3 P’s, it must be immediate, private, and plentiful proper. And when folks go in to measure simply how typically recognition is occurring. It is not taking place as a lot because it actually ought to. And so, it’s a must to have methods in place to make that occur. So, rounding recognition and one-on-one teaching are all actually massive.
Stewart Gandolf
So, I’ve to ask a bonus query right here. The, I nonetheless have one other query I need to ask on the finish of this, however like, when you’ve got a sick group the place it is identical to, , they’re leapfrog rating is struggling. They don’t seem to be tremendous secure. They have no tradition, and there could also be, I’d guess like, should you get into a spot like that, , who would dismiss the opposite cultural points which might be inherent, nevertheless it all type of ladders as much as the identical stuff. So, when do you ever get engaged by the place they simply actually have a number of work to do. After which are there something particular that you are able to do to assist? You realize? Kind of triage that to get them onto a baseline.
Kris Baird
Yeah, so we sometimes begin with a tradition evaluation. After we’re working with organizations. And through that tradition evaluation we’re in a position to take a look at. Okay, simply how poisonous is that this, that we’re coping with? And I delight myself in delivering the type fact. And meaning with the ability to say to that, CEO, privately, ‘Look, do you need to change this group? As a result of that is going to be onerous work. And that is what your position must be.’ And there have been occasions the place I’ve wanted to stroll away, as a result of I do know that they aren’t going to be prepared to do the work, proper? And that may be powerful since you go searching. And also you assume, Oh, my gosh! On the entrance line they’ve these great folks which might be so devoted they simply do not have the help proper.
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah, nicely, I might see that. I imply, like, I stated, there are some organizations are more healthy than others. I believe some organizations, , view themselves in a different way, like, I bear in mind, that Dr. Jim Molino has been a pal and visitor on this, podcast loads, as , he is a frontrunner in affected person expertise, and when he went over to the non-public sector with Press Ganey, I stated, what’s the factor that stunned you most? He stated, ‘What number of occasions the security isn’t even within the query.’ That is not even on the on the subject. Proper? Like, that is kind of elementary. And so, . Some organizations, I am certain, have a for much longer approach to go, and a few organizations, for instance, view themselves, as , protectors of well being of their communities. Some view themselves as leaders and innovators, however others actually do not have that. And so, it is, . I can see it being difficult. As we wrap up, we talked about advertising and marketing just a bit bit. The rest on the sturdy connection between management or the connection between, , sturdy management and advertising and marketing. Something you possibly can broaden on there?
Kris Baird
Yeah. A favourite matter of mine, truly, as a result of if a model is a promise. Then the query is, how are you delivering on that promise at each encounter, with each buyer, each single day?
So, , take into consideration how advertising and marketing and organizations works tirelessly to herald enterprise to the group to, , purchase new sufferers, take into consideration the price of affected person acquisition. And when that client turns into a affected person there are a number of contact factors the place the affected person is deciding in case you are what you say you might be, proper? And what are you saying? You’re. You set out your mission, your imaginative and prescient, your values your tagline, proper? And no person’s placing an asterisk or a footnote on the mission, saying, , we put the affected person on the heart of all we do asterisk. Take a look at the footnote that claims, apart from after we’re busy or having a foul day, , and God allow you to on the weekends and holidays, proper?
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah.
Kris Baird
So, no person’s placing that footnote in. And so having leaders actually embrace that they are those who’re the keepers of the tradition. They’re those who’re serving to ship on the model promise at each contact level. You realize, are the behaviors aligned? Does the workers know what’s anticipated of them? Have the workers been coached? Are they tolerating unhealthy behaviors that do not align with the promise, , as a result of what you allow you promote.
Stewart Gandolf
Yep. So, it is humorous a few ideas on this. So, I not too long ago interviewed Doug Flora and Dr. Doug Flora. He was speaking about how it’s hospital to take a look at advertising and marketing as a part of the most cancers preventing crew like they actually do take a look at it that means, like versus being sitting on the children desk or not even within the room in any respect. Proper. They don’t seem to be like there. Go get your lunches by yourself. Go to the varsity cafeteria.
So, I believe advertising and marketing traditionally, and it is somewhat higher now, however has at all times been on the children desk in lots of organizations. And it is powerful. And , we’re advertising and marketing, not simply to draw sufferers. Right now, we’re advertising and marketing to our personal constituencies, proper? Our personal medical doctors or referrers our donors, our staff, and folks overlook that. And clearly, if we’re speaking a few model promise and tradition extending during is essential. You realize, we’re engaged on at present we’re simply engaged with a bunch that has supplier teams and an IPA and a bunch of various entities. And there is some challenges in there, as a result of some are , are unknown, others have had been identified and are not as a lot of at this time. So, there’s at all times pondering via, like, how does these things all match collectively, and the way will we align on a model promise? And the way will we reside? That proper? It is not simply lip service. However how will we truly reside it. So, I believe it is an essential matter. Anyway, Kris, any remaining ideas earlier than I allow you to go. This was superior, as I anticipated it will be. The rest?
Kris Baird
I imply simply that if individuals are keen on studying extra about be the chief, no person needs to depart they will at all times discover extra info on my web site, Baird-group.com, and we begin new cohorts each 9 weeks for that course. However, then we additionally provide it to organizations in order that they will have non-public cohorts as nicely.
Stewart Gandolf
That is superior. Nicely, Kris, it was enjoyable. I’ll see you in Orlando in a number of weeks, right here.
Kris Baird
Yeah, that is nice. I am wanting ahead to it.
Stewart Gandolf
Yeah, we’ll see you there. Good seeing you once more. Have a fantastic day. Thanks.
Kris Baird
Thanks.
Stewart Gandolf
Bye, bye.
